My Final Goodbye

by Lady Lee 216 Replies latest forum announcements

• 

  ÁrbolesdeArabia

  Simon, why would someone lock the thread when there was more to be said about the AAWA contraversy? Sure, Cedars would have loved to close the thread down like a child who yell's (I got the last word or it's my ball and I am outta here!) but why close it? To engage in conversations and debates is not evil when alternative explanations or points of view need to surface. I am glad you opened up a "closed thread" to allow the conversation to finish its eventual destination.

  I think this shows how dynamic JWN and ExJW dialogue is, we are not so paranoid and weak we try to cover up mistakes and shine the light on another's erroneous thinkings or deeds. We are no better than The Tower if refuse to accept criticism or critcal remarks about our method of opperations. The scientific community is not above reproach if their theories and gadgets are a miserable failure, so it is with us, if we are to be a better agency than that which we left behind, we need to embrace any good constructive criticism, otherwise we are nothing more than a Bizzarro version of the Watchtower Organization which embraces "fear, group shunnings, half-truths, theocratic lying, and education on how to improve the Whole. Thank's Simon for taking us above our begining and allowing everything to be examined no matter where the cards drop! Your a good brother!

  "

  Just to be clear so there are no misunderstandings on what happened ... Cedars posted a kind of 'wrap up' post to the original AAWA topic basically declaring it finished and the topic was locked shortly after. I didn't know why it had been locked and there was no reason that it needed to be locked. Therefore, I unlocked it with a comment to that effect. Normally, when something like that happens and there is any debate about the decision it's done in admin. Instead Lady Lee posted publicly that it was locked because Cedars had asked her to lock it, and then locked it again. That was when I made it clear more pointedly that the topic should not be locked and that Cedars was not a moderator of this site and the moderation should be done according to this sites rules, not at the bidding of the AAWA. See: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/scandals/250042/19/AAWA-is-here-The-Association-of-Anti-Watchtower-Activists "Subsequently, and privately, I suggested that it would be better if she hold off moderating on AAWA related topics so there wouldn't be any conflict of interest or the appearance of it. This was so she wouldn't be put in a difficult position of them asking her to take actions on the site that obviously didn't fit with this site's rules. I didn't suggest she chould not post on AAWA topics if she chose to though.(underline mine) "I am surprised and disappointed in the nature of her resignation. I think it was probably orchestrated somewhat and the 'reasoning' is a little twisted and confusing IMO but it is what it is and we move on. JWN will thrive I'm sure. It's always been bigger than any individual moderator or any site owner, it's the sum of all the people on it who come together to make it what it is.
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  ÁrbolesdeArabia

  Since I double posted, let me say again, THANK YOU SIMON FOR ALLOWING US TO ENGAGE AND KEEP EVERYONE AND EVERY THREAD CLEAN!

  Where was the "thread" locked out on? It goes for pages and pages, when did the thread get locked out, and which page was the end of Cedar's conversation? There's so much more to say regarding what events transpired, we become our own investigative journalist if we are allowed to debate "touchy subjects" even when a group might wish we never know the truth (kinda like the Watchtower who pushes for their totaltarian regime.). With this said, I wish Lady Lee the best of luck and hope she is not hood-winked or screwed over after the AAWA Debacle!

  It would be a dreadful thing for any lurking JW to wander to AAWA after realizing the nasty Stasi style action they take against their own kind. I think any active or fading Jehovah's Witness needs to think twice about joining any Facebook Page where retaliation is possible and action to remove negative outcomes move's at "the pace of evolution!", "Stupid Is What Stupid Does!", please rethink your position because eventual a mole is going to get inside, and what will you do than?

  Simon has proven a reliable source and destination for Jehovah Witness lurkers and active board members who cherish their annonominity, we have such a elastic board, why head to a control freak's website where your opinion will be moderated and you could be slammed for opposing the Boss Hog? Maybe I am paranoid, but that does not mean their not watching!
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  still thinking

  Good grief she said how she felt and she left and over 7000 posts later people are still discussing what she 'really' meant. Weird, just like arguing over what the last days prophecies mean. Am I the only person who finds this really strange?

  Thats what happens when people behave childishly...its an AAWA trait. And this event didn't happen in isolation...it is all connected with other AAWA behaviour that is just like it.

  They want to say what they want...lock threads, delete comments...have their say and refuse to respond. So people are left guessing what they REALLY mean.

  It would be adult behaviour to come back and clarify. But neither LL or Cedars are behaving like adults.

  They are the people you try to have a discussion with, that turn around and walk out because they don't like what they hear and have no valid response. So they THINK they win with their silence. It's manipulative, controlling behaviour...and also, interestingly, abusive behavour to the receivers of it...not 'motherly' at all.

  AWWA stands for lack of communication...and silencing people. I would not even bother joining a forum on their website...what a joke. They would just delete and lock EVERYTHING they didn't like. Just like they have done up to date.

  And this is NOTHING like arguing over prophesies....because those people are dead...we cannot ask them what they mean. And I bet that if they were alive they would happily explain. Neither LL or Cedars are dead...they are just silent and uncommunicative.
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  Unlearn

  after sitting back and watching, i'll say this: regardless of all the intentions and 'promo', or whatever...i don't trust or 100% respect the AAWA as a group PURELY because peoples identities were outed on their watch.
  i remember when, as an elder, i was making covert moves with my wife to get out of that bullshit cult with some sort of dignity...the feeling that i had done it on my own terms, you know? so that i could say, 'at least i had control in THAT...'. i was so careful. tracks covered, stories polished. it was a breathless time, full of anxiety and pain...and fear. fear which i eventually overcame, true enough. but fear it was...and back then, i slept with it.
  if at this time, while drowning among the rising ruins of my once 'simple' life, ANYONE had outed me...even inadvertantly, it would've destroyed so much of what i was delicately balancing. if the person responsible for doing this was also IN THE VERY SAME SITUATION as i was, it would've made the whole affair very bitter.
  and if there was no full, no-strings-attached apology afterwards...well, i have no idea what I would've done. the feeling of betrayal wouldve been a far second to the feeling of panic at my newly exposed situation.
  
  SO, i dont care WHO runs the AAWA...i don't care if the board consisted of Gandhi, MLK, Mother Theresa, and Ben Kenobi. if just ONE PERSONS secrets were compromised, if just one person had to frantically deal with the dry-mouthed panic that i KNOW would've slapped me in the face...well, based on that alone, the AAWA can really go take a walk. even if there are good intentions all around, 'friendly fire' is still fire.
  
  why the hell do human beings need SO badly to work in GROUPS?
  you're a powerful universe in your being. OWN IT.
• 

  zed is dead

  Amen Unlearn, and amen!

  zed
• 

  ÁrbolesdeArabia

  Unlearn your point is well taken, I hope others can see the issues Facebook open's up for others with "Force Adding" and management and moderators who move at the speed of "peak evolution (is that slower than regular evolution?) to remove a problem or issue that could harm someones's true identity.

  One thing others need to learn on JWN is what Simon has stated time after time, don't give anyone your ID on JWN you are not confident in giving it too. They might pressure you or justify "you owe them your real name" but in reality, you do not! You owe nothing to nobody and luckily to the brother who was almost out'ed, he was able to do some damage control and remain safe! We don't need a website where you are punished for speaking your mind and it's possible for them to broadcast your face all over Facebook!

  As a former elder you had plenty of friends and associates you surgically tried to remove yourself from, it's the only way to do it when you have business relationships, family and children who are stuck in this morass! Thank's "Unlearned" for helping reinforce what I already knew, peace to you and your family!
• 

  ÁrbolesdeArabia

  I agree Las Malvinas, his thread on Patterson was pushing into fantasy the way Adolf Eichmann saw reality, just because you think something does not make it a reality! To attract readers to his polls, he pushed the limits with his nano-samples and micro-surveys which really proved nothing. Here's some information on Adolf Eichmann who had a way with words, you will learn about him in first year Journalism Classes, it's a method to twist reality and the truth into something really weird!

  "...

  The second interesting thing that emerges from Eichmann's own papers is that he's chewing over in his mind -- he's frightfully repetitive -- he keeps on coming back, again and again, in his manuscripts and in these conversations to who was behind it, and what was behind it. What was behind the "Holocaust" (if we can use that word loosely here now)? He keeps coming back to the appalling thought: Did they manage to use us? Did the Zionists use the Nazis to further their own ends? Was the Holocaust something that they themselves inflicted on their own body, in order to bring about their Zionist cause in the long run?

  This was Eichmann's theory, at the end of his life (effectively, because a year or two later he was kidnapped and a year after that he was at the end of a rope in Israel). "Did they manage to use us?" He keeps on coming back to it, and every time he comes back to it becomes more and more plausible to him. And perhaps this is the reason why the Eichmann papers were not supposed to see the light of day.

  Thirdly, when he's justifying the cruelty of what he himself has seen -- and in a minute I'll go into some of the detail about what he saw -- he says, "But compared to what they were doing to us at that time, this was nothing. Compared to what they were planning to do with us, this was nothing." He said, "I remember in Berlin an air raid... [and] afterwards going through the streets past a house that had collapsed, and hearing the screams of an elderly couple who had been trapped by falling debris, and the woman pleading to be put out of her misery by anybody with a gun." He said, "When you hear screams like that, you never forget them for the rest of your life." He describes that two or three times in his memoirs.

  Now, that's not justification. One crime doesn't justify another crime, that's plain. But this is in the memoirs. He also says, "Besides, we had by this time already learned of the Jews' plans for Germany." He mentions explicitly the book by Theodore Kaufman, Germany Must Perish. This is most interesting, because in the Goebbels diaries of August 1941 (which have also not yet been published), Goebbels also mentions Kaufman's book as justification.

  This book, published in the United States by a deranged American Jew, presents a crazy plan for liquidating millions of Germans after the war. It was published in August 1941, and is referred to by Goebbels a few weeks before he introduced the plan for Jews to wear a yellow star. You can see a logical sequence of events, and Eichmann refers to this book as being one reason why, in his own mind, he can justify to himself the crimes that he was seeing committed..."

  The article continues with more information but I think you get the gist of Eichmann's strange disconnect from reality and how he blamed everyone else for his stupid decessions and gaping blunders!

  http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v13/v13n2p14_Irving.html
• 

  bikerchic002

  Dear Lee,

  I wondered onto JWD, sorry JWN (old habits and all that) because I was thinking about Craig and all the fun we had here and you of course were a big part of that. I just want to say I wish you the best in whatever your endevors are. You are an amazing lady and surly put the "Lady" in your handle. You've been such a great help to so many people and leave a great legacy here which I dare say no one will ever be able to fill.

  That said will your leaving leave a "hole" here, probably, but people will continue on as usual, and as they should in their recovery. That's the best part of JWN, it truly helps with the healing, learning and reinventing ones life. It's a huge endevor coming out of a cult as we all know. I have found that to truly get out you really have to rediscover, remake, relearn, reinvent, regroup and most importantly move on. Once you've discovered the "truth about the truth" and gotten over the shock of it all, get the hell out of dodge and get on with making the best life you can.

  12 years is a long time to commit to reeducating people. I hope you find it's time for you, to do whatever your heart wants and leads you to do. Helping people is in your nature, good for you but don't forget to help yourself, psych 101, "Doctor heal thyself." Just saying.....the rest tends to sort itself out. Craig use to have a saying about moving the peas and carrots around on the plate, it's better to eat 'em and allow them to nourish your body and soul then move them around on the plate, just make sure you're not merly moving the peas and carrots around on the plate by moving to this new website. Anyway he said something like that, god I miss him he was full of sayings like that, but I digress.

  Farkel said it best go back to page one (I'm too freaking lazy to do it for you and c/p it) but he's another gem JWlD, that Farkel, love that guy. Love you too Lee and you go out and get a life, be good to yourself. Life is truly wonderful and amazing once you're rid of the cult crap.

  Okay I'm feeling melencoly and I am of course looking at the good times Craig and I had here and am truly grateful for Simon, Angharad and JWD for giving us the chance to meet. It was all good. And now in honor of the real reason I cruised onto JWN in the first place I'm going to revisit some of the Craigster's old stuff, it was his birthday a few days ago and he's been on my mind, I miss him and one of the great things about JWD and the Internet is you can go back and you don't have to stay.

  Love you Lee and please take good care of yourself, and be well.

  ~ Kate
• 

  ÁrbolesdeArabia

  Do you think she is going to read through these posts if she has moved on to AAWA? Usually she replies so is this more therapy for us than her? I think she has really left the building for good, no input from her since she stated she is gone. Too bad she's not around to see all the well wishing for her and prayers for her safe transistion to her new calling! Peace to you Lady Lee!
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  The Quiet One

  Stillthinking said: "I would not even bother joining a forum on their website...what a joke. They would just delete and lock EVERYTHING they didn't like." ---"But we may put up a custom mini-forum that focuses on specific topics and allows for suggestions. In some cases, if we feel a topic needs wider exposure and input, we may suggest that someone go to one of the Big 3 I’ve listed (note:this includes JWN), open a thread, and then share the thread here so we can all follow along and maybe join in. We love polite and constructive discussion." http://aawa.co/blog/a-new-name-and-an-apology/