by frankiespeakin 21 Replies latest jw friends
Scoto,
The force behind cognitive dissonance is the force for discovery.
Yes that is definetly more basic, thanks for bringing that out. The drive to play/practice and improve could have cognitive dissonace projected onto some sort of psychic ideal with/using emotional rewards in the series of steps leading impulsively in that direction. It is almost like trying to answer the question what came first the chicken or the egg(neither they evovled together it's a process not an event).
So, my curiosity led to cognitive dissonance which led to discovery? Is that about right?
Whether it's a force or a condition or whatever, I'm glad it happened to me!
Good ol' Cognitive Dissonance... my friend.
watkins
scotoma:
“The force behind cognitive dissonance is the force for discovery. ”
I checked the dictionary and Wiki, and “dissonance” is characterized as “lack of harmony” (e.g., a dissonant musical chord), and also a “state of mental conflict.” This seems to suggest that dissonance implies something negative, or, simply put, something isn’t right (i.e., something which causes a kind of “error message” in the mind, in response to something in need of resolution).
Satanus:
“ Its a symptom of conflict between a belief held and evidence to the contrary. ”
This seems to be more, in a practical sense, representative of the mechanism of dissonance.
I don’t think that dissonance is something that arises from the motivation for discovery. Rather, I think that it is something that is the result of a mismatch between what a person knows to be true, based on acquired valid evidence, and what erroneous or fallacious belief they choose to hold on to without effecting resolution.
Think of when there is a mismatch between your visual sense and your equilibrium in your inner ear – the result, as we know, is vertigo/dizziness and nausea (when drunk or when on a boat in the waves). End result: puke.
As an example: I could be in a house which is filling with smoke, causing me to choke and burning my eyes. Now, immediately there is dissonance – my mind is giving me an “error message” that I am in danger and must seek remedy by leaving the situation. Of course, I would do so right away, thus eliminating the dissonance through resolution.
If, on the other hand, I chose to stay in that irritating and noxious smoke – now that would be dissonance, which would be very pronounced and continuous. That dissonance would be a result of acting out of harmony with logic and common sense, which would result in me passing out and probably ending up burnt to a crisp.
Now, that would make about as much sense as choosing to remain in a destructive cult after discovering evidence of such. As fanciful as that might seem, that is in effect what people are doing when they choose to indefinitely put off indulging in such “inconvenient truth” and thus prevent resolution of the dissonance by, well, leaving.
There is a difference between wanting to be safe and wanting to get more information. An animal that encounters a clearly perceived threat moves rapidly away from the threat or in some animals they freeze and remain motionless. This is called harm avoidance. Harm avoidance is opposite novelty seeking. If an animal encouters a strange or unknown signal they have two choices. Play it safe and avoid harm OR approach it and explore.
If the animal runs away there is no dissonance at all because the conflict was resolved when the animal chose to flee. The only reason there might be dissonance is if the animal wants to explore the object. They may approach the object and then back off a little bit. They will edge closer and closer by alternating approach and withdrawal. The animal wants to know how much of a threat the object is or if it might even be useful as food. The state of alternation is dissonance because the animal hasn't concluded how safe or dangerous the object is. What keeps them in this state is the desire for information.
Premature flight is the conservative strategy. The animal knows most of the food things in its environment so it is safer to flee from strange things. On the other hand the animal that explores its environment has more options in the future. This is why play and exploration have survival value.
A cult will try to prevent exploration except for information that is favorable to their goal. Cognitive dissonance continues until you have a clear sense of an objects true nature. The way the cult shuts down your desire for orientation is by labeling certain things as dangerous and catastrophic if they aren't avoided.
So without the drive for exploration there would never be cognitive dissonance. Cognitive dissonance would be disolved by harm avoidance and shutting down novelty seeking impulses.
scotoma:
Actually, that’s a good point that you made. Now that I think of it, the desire or motivation to learn is actually a need. Not a lower need, such as immediate safety, shelter, or water, but a need nonetheless – a higher need. I am thinking of Abraham Maslow’s famous “hierarchy of needs” – see the following diagram at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Maslow%27s_Hierarchy_of_Needs.svg
And since investigation and learning, along with play, creativeness, and intellectualization/philosophizing, could also be classified as a need, then that would seem to be a kind of dissonance seeking resolution, or at least indulgence as and end in itself.
Interesting how what drives us works.
SAHS,
Maslow had an interesting theory. His only problem is that he defined self-actualization by a narrow set of what he felt were the "highest" goals.
He singled out certain people as examples of self-actualization. In reality everyone is self-actualizing. Even if your main concern is to get food for the day you are no less self actualizing then a person who spends all day contemplating the mysteries of the universe. Some people have strong needs for comfort and security. Others have a dominant need for control and freedom. Our temperament is defined by what we want and how we get what we want. Also what we avoid and how we avoid it.
I would prefer a series of concentric cirlces to a pyramid. The smaller inner circle would represent the number of people who value exploration and have a high tolerance for ambiguity. The other circles would reflect the larger percentage of people that seek security, control and comfort. Just because one person prefers an abstract or spiritual goal doesn't mean they are at the top.
Is not About CD is what you do when you experience it....
So then I think I would be more correct in saying the forces which cause cognitive dissonance are also the driving forces of discovery and the discovery once it is discovered eliminates discomfort from dissonance to the point of rewards of blissful states or Ah ha! moments in many cases. And also the addiction for the experience to be repeated also adds to the forces being somehow amplified in preparation for further exploration. It is a tricky subject and all depends on the ability to find paterns connecting this and that type of impulses.
Any how, this pain/reward system in the human psyche is "programmed into us" which lead us to making better and better tools as the hundreds of thousands of years went by to where we are today, appearently we had just the right amount to keep us curiosly learning (fatalities not withstanding) to where we are today all hooked up to the internet with answers to any cognitive dissonance we might feel.
The Pleasure of finding things out:
Cognitive Dissonance is a GOOD THING. Cognitive Dissonance is a GOOD THING. I think we all should just say this over and over and over until the whole ex JW community gets it straight. I have had this same discussion so many times and still some people get it in their heads that cognitive dissonance is somehow a negative thing. I really don't know why.
So let's just break it down sloooowwwwly.
Cognitive. Is there anything wrong or bad with cognitive? What does it mean? It means of the mind or of the brain. A cognitive process is one that takes place in the mind or brain. Thinking for example is a cognitive process, and thinking is good. Cognitive processes are good. they are evidence that someone is alive and their brain works. Cognitive-ugh-good. Fire-ugh - good.
Dissonance. Good or bad? This might be where the confusion gets in. Dissonance in music is when two sounds or notes are poorly paired and make a sound that is not pleasing. When someone plays the guitar and plays a dissonant note, everyone goes eeewww. Dissonance in music, bad. Unless you are listening to a composer, and there are many, who can make dissonant sounds spound good, like Frank Zappa or Nels Cline.
Now, there is dissonance in all sorts of things. Dissonance in society, means that many people are not agreeing. Dissonance in nuts and bolts would mean that the bolts don't fit the nuts. Dissonance in food would be when two foods do not go well together.
So cognitive dissonance should be bad then right? No.
Cognitive dissonance is when you NOTICE that two things do not agree. If your brain does not NOTICE there is dissonance in a thought, then for you, there IS NO DOSSONANCE. Everything is just fine and you smile and sink back into your chair and watch Little House on the Prarie.
Cognitive dissonance is when you NOTICE that two things do not agree. If your brain does not NOTICE there is dissonance in a thought, then for you, there IS NO DOSSONANCE. Everything is just fine and you smile and sink back into your chair and watch Little House on the Prarie.
If you FEEL cognitive dissonance in your brain, then that is a sign that it is taking place and you NOTICE it. You are not dead. You notice dissonance in your head. What do you do when you notice dissonance in your head? Take a shot gun and blow it off? Read more Watchtowers until it all goes awayt? Call the elders and have them pray for you? Go out in service? Pick up a book that deals with cognitive dissonance and learn what it means, read a book that directly deals with the thing you are feeling dissonance about, like whether or not the Watchtower made false prophecies, whetheror not the blood issue is supported by science and external sources outside the Watchtower, web sites that feature criticism of Jehovah's Witnesses.
All of those things would be ways to EASE your dissonance, because, just as in music, dissonance is hard to tolerate for very l;ong. But some of the things I listed, while they might make you feel better, they are more like treating the symptoms than treating what is actually wrong, the disease.
Cognitive dissonance is natural, a natural process of the brain. Another word for cognitive dissonance is: thinking. Yes, cognitive dissonance is thinking. It is thinking how two things don't quite add up. You must solve the puzzle, or you must down a bunch of pills to make you forget there is a puzzle there at all.
If you are on this site, you are here due to cognitive dissonance. It brought you here in an effort for you to ease the dissonance in your brain, not by pacifying it, but by investigating its roots and causes so that you can bring your brain back in harmony, ike in music, with your beliefs and the experiences of your body, social life, relgious beliefs and so on.
Who is this guy? Hey dude, who do you think you are. What are you so smart? why the large print? Why the condescention? you are a jesrki. Just trying to stay ahead of all the criticisms I am likely to get for this post. But I do know what the fuck I am talking about. I have a college degree in language and liuteracy. Yes, I can provide sources ands shit. No I probably won't do it cuz I don't care.
