Establishing the Premises Regarding "Jehovah's Channel"

by Ding 13 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Ding
    Ding

    Typically, when the topic of new light arises in discussions with a JW, it come about this way:

    1. WT critic cites discarded doctrines or false prophecies to the JW in order to undermine his faith in the GB.

    2. JW counters by citing Proverbs 4:18, saying that changes are fine because the light gets brighter and brighter.

    3. WT critic gets frustrated because any sort of nonsense can be overlooked via that type of thought-stopping "logic."

    Perhaps a better approach is to start by asking the JW to explain how the "Jehovah's channel of communication" process works. After all, we want to be able to trust what is communicated in the WT publications and not be stumbled, right?

    1. Does the GB pray and study the scriptures and wait on Jehovah before publishing something as spiritual truth?

    JW must assume they do.

    2. In response to these prayers of faith, does Jehovah through his spirit communicate to his chosen channel what truth he wants published?

    JW must assume that he does.

    3. At the time they publish something, does the GB sincerely believe that they are communicating truth revealed to them by Jehovah and not their own fallible thoughts or imaginings?

    JW must assume that they do.

    4. Since millions of JWs are trusting this channel, if the GB sincerely misunderstands and in Jehovah's name inadvertently publishes something that is false, is Jehovah faithful to communicate the error and see to it that his channel replaces it with the correct information that he wants conveyed?

    A JW must assume that he is.

    Having first established these premises about how the "channel of communication" functions, then when we show the JW nonsense that was published by the WTS, we can follow up by asking what went wrong.

    For example, did the WT leaders sincerely believe that Jehovah had revealed to them and wanted them to communicate that Jesus returned in 1874... that the resurrection would occur in 1925... that organ transplants are cannibalism..., etc.? If so, what went wrong? Where exactly did they get the misinformation?

    And, knowing that his chosen channel was publishing these errors in his name, what steps did Jehovah take to make sure that the slave replaced the falsehoods with correct information? When did he correct them? When did they publish the correction?

    Given all the ludicrous things we've shown them, how can we know if the current teachings of the slave are really what Jehovah wanted communicated to them?

    I'm hoping that by getting JWs to think about what being God's "channel of communication" means we may be able more effectively to get them to consider the possibility that they shouldn't simply swallow wholesale whatever the GB tells them. I'm also hoping that the "light gets brighter and brighter" lingo won't make much sense any more.

    Obviously, this approach won't work with every JW... probably not even with most JWs... but maybe it will work with some of them.

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    Why does someone wake up in the Matrix? I don't know? I get what you are saying. The only approach that works is to speak the truth with authority, and in a matter of fact way. You cannot show fear. That's why speaking before you are ready is dangerous. The thought stopping phrases used against you will try to take over your mind again.

    I don't believe any amount of reasoning will wake up a die-hard JW. The problem is so complex. Emotional issues, psychological issues, why do people stay in cults or high control groups? Fear, security? I don't know.

    I never fit in. Some really feel like they belong. Maybe they do? I had an Elder tell me that whatever the FDS says, he will go along with it no matter how often it changes. Why? He believes that it is God's channel. He really does. Until something happens to him personally, or something huge that cannot be swept under the rug happens to the Org, he will never doubt the channel.

    Without that doubt he will never look down the rabbit hole. I really hope the Org just gets so crazy that it self-destructs. Then maybe we can help the dubs who are devestated and crestfallen.

  • Oubliette
    Oubliette

    Ding: Given all the ludicrous things we've shown them, how can we know if the current teachings of the slave are really what Jehovah wanted communicated to them?

    We can't, but to paraphrase you: JWs must assume that it is.

    Ass-U-Me

    It really doesn't matter whether the FDS is right or wrong; the only thing that matters is this: Listen, Obey and Be Blessed!

    We KNOW the FDS is the FDS because they tell us so.

    crwb

  • Ding
    Ding
    I had an Elder tell me that whatever the FDS says, he will go along with it no matter how often it changes. Why? He believes that it is God's channel. He really does.

    I think a lot of JWs are like this.

    That's why I am suggesting that we start with the assumption that the FDS IS God's channel and ask how the process works, how the GB gets its information from Jehovah, what safeguards the GB uses to prevent error, why serious miscommunication has occurred so often in WT history despite these precautions, and what God has done about it, given that he wants people to trust his chosen channel.

    Of course, a JW can refuse to think about these things, and many like that elder probably will refuse to go there.

    But my hope is that those who do think about it (in an effort to explain it to us) will at least begin to suspect that the whole premise is bogus.

  • Terry
    Terry

    Let's begin with William Miller. He pretty much started the 2nd Coming rumors pre-Civil War.

    He was a war hero in the War of 1812 who sat himself down for a couple of years with his bible and whatever reading material he could lay hands on.

    Miller concocted something very familiar to all of us today 200 years later. The Gentile Times nonsense!

    It wasn't really original. That ground had been plowed many times before.

    Now this topic heading is "Establishing Premises" and we shall look at that historically.

    1. Martin Luther wrested away the power of Catholic "authority" to interpret scripture by inventing (out of thin air) a new doctrine.

    A. The Catholic Doctrine was Magisterium B. The Protestant replacement doctrine was Sola Scriptura (the bible alone).

    2.William Miller, after the war of 1812, using his family bible and whatever other books were in his family's library; Miller cut and pasted his own CHRONOLOGY together. What PREMISE did Miller use? Martin Luther's premise: sola scriptura.

    A. Miller's arithmetic and cherry-picked scriptures from Daniel and the now familiar "other" sources came up with 1844: Christ's return!

    B.Miller, although not a trained theologian, was invited to preach his "method of computation" in various churches. The local untrained farmers and poorly schooled women folk ate it up like apple pie and ice cream! Thousands of listeners were convinced!

    C.As the date approached the mainstream christian denominations warned their gullible members it would all prove to be a folly.

    3. THE GREAT DISAPPOINTMENT was just that: a great big nothing. The target date came and went. Miller was unfazed!

    4.New dates were set and those failed too! Miller apologized but continued to believe he was "close" but probably not too far wrong until he died.

    After Miller, do you think those thousands of disappointed believers shrugged and admitted they were duped?? NO WAY!

    It started all over again.

    Various persons tried date setting chronologies and all of them got it wrong!

    5. Ellen White (knocked on the skull as a child) had "visions". Those visions proved useful for 2nd Adventists. God was speaking to her directly!

    What was Ellen White's PREMISE?? A bump on her head and subsequent "visions"!

    A whole "industry" of charts and dispensational teachings mushroomed into a crazy "hobby" for people excited by the prospect of living in the END TIMES.

    Among those persons is our old pal: CHARLES TAZE RUSSELL.

    6.Russell used his family fortune to fund speculations and to print articles about the 2nd Coming.

    A. At first Russell championed any exciting idea that seemed valuable but later broke off on his own.

    B. Russell became convinced (as had Miller, whom he admired) that the arithmetic of the bible demonstrated THE END WAS NEAR!

    c. Russell set up a corporation for the purpose of publishing warnings as though from a watchman standing in a WATCHTOWER who sees ahead.

    7.Russell married an excellent, ambitious and intelligent woman, Maria who edited Russell's writings and came up with ideas of her own.

    A. Like Ellen White, Maria concocted a way both she and Charles could have "visions" of True teaching. This became the doctrine of the "faithful and wise servant" or the FDS bullshit we find so endearing today among JW's.

    B. Russell's reputation was being pounded by all the denominations he had been attacking and he sent Maria on a world tour to smooth things among the Bible Students. Maria was so charming and intelligent she sucked all the glory out of the room and became very popular!

    C.Russell became bitter and estranged from her. A number of accusations, lawsuits and an official legal separation came next to keep Maria from having any hope of publishing through the Watchtower corporation or laying hands on his wealth.

    What was the PREMISE for Russell's channel of communication? Maria's wacky interpretation of the scripture about the "faithful and wise servant."

    Also Russell was referred to as the Laodicean messenger foretold in Revelation to come in the "Last Days". In other words, Russell simply claimed authority for himself.

    A.Russell's predictions never worked out. They came from Pyramidology and cherry-picked nonsense like William Miller had done.

    B.Russell claimed 1873/74 as the date Jesus returned. When Jesus didn't show up---Russell declared Jesus officially "invisible"!

    8.After Russell died, "Judge" Rutherford pulled a fast one and made himself the next President of the Watchtower Society.

    A. At first Rutherford had a board of Directors. When they tried to stifle his crazy ideas he dismissed them and kept their names on the banner as "directors" even though they were not allowed a say in anything!

    B. Rutherford began a preaching campaign MILLIONS NOW LIVING WILL NEVER DIE which targeted 1925 as Armageddon and the resurrection.

    C. When 1925 proved to be false prophecy, Rutherford claimed he had "made an ass of" himself. He continued his crazy rants and teachings

    On what PREMISE did Rutherford establish himself as "Jehovah's Channel"?

    Rutherford, at first, claimed Russell was editing the Watchtower from heaven but later simply RE-INTERPRETED the FDS scripture to include himself.

    8. After Rutherford's death, Nathan Knorr and his resident prophet Fred Franz cooked up, reworked and reworded adventist and bible student ideas

    and eventually changed every one of them to suit themselves! The Adventist idea of "new light" became Watchtower-speak for "Now we've finally got it right!"

    A.Knorr and Franz engineered the new Chronology identifying 1975 as the date Armageddon would arrive.

    B.Pressure from the board of directors forced Knorr to relinquish his autonomy as sole authority and the Governing Body became more evenly distributed among several men (as many as 9) who could--presumably stop wild, weird and wacky ideas from being published!

    What was the PREMISE for Knorr and Franz as "Jehovah's channel"?

    The continued application of Maria Russell's interpretation (with some changes) of the "faithful and wise servant" scripture.

    We can stop right there. Enough damage had been done by 1975 to provide a feast of folly for critics and ex-members to point out the

    incompetency of Jehovah's governing body.

    Since it was still PRE-INTERNET--the Society began cracking down and silencing critics who knew the most about errors on their part.

    In 1983 the disfellowship policy became so severe that it applied not merely to religious interactions between members and ex-members but to SECULAR and CASUAL encounters as well. The religion officially became a cult!

    Since that time, all efforts have zeroed in on making it a high crime to speak out against the Governing Body.

    Demands for Loyalty above all else increase as more and more "old teachings" become impossible to defend and changes are forced upon the religion.

    It is now UNTHINKABLE that any voice of criticism be allowed to sound an alarm!

    THE BASIS from the beginning for "Jehovah's Channel" has always been human imagination.

    Amateur theologians hunt and pick through the bible and twist various unconnected passages into a Pretzel-shape of NEW LIGHT.

    Every time the New Light fades it is ignored and replaced.

    TRIAL and ERROR would at least lead to progressive doctrines.

    But, there is no method at all applied to creating BELIEFS and DOCTRINES other than mere crazy-thinking and contrarian ideology.

    Ther is no "there" there!

  • leaving_quietly
    leaving_quietly

    Interesting approach. I'd add a question: So, what makes the GB question its own teachings such that it must continue to make changes? Is it Holy Spirit? They were cited as saying there's no hole in the ceiling from which this stuff drops, so then, what is it?

  • Listener
    Listener

    Marking, thanks.

  • Crazyguy
    Crazyguy

    Lets not forget that Ellen White also said when Jesus did not come 'he did invisibly' also when Bourbor guys including Russel didnt see Jesus either in 1874 they did pretty much the same except one of them found a bible that said 'Presence' at matt. 24:3-4 instead of 'coming' so they just used that and the rest is history.

  • *lost*
    *lost*

    Terry excellent

  • Captain Blithering
    Captain Blithering

    This is brilliant, thanks for laying it out so clearly.

    We should start a new section on the forum 'apostate ministry school', ways to convey the message ever more clearly!

    (work on gestures, i didnt see ONE!)

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