I have always thought the idea behind yahweh and the meaning he causes to become, simply means the future. The future will be whatever the forces of nature determine. Its just a way of saying whatever happens will happen. They of course thought that the wind, sun and other major influences on their home were god or gods. Perhaps we are wrong to assume these gods are simply people, they are simply the unexplained for the anceints. They just didnt appreciate the science behind why things happen.
Their is no evidence/record of Jesus ever using Gods personal name , let alone making that personal name known during his 33 years of life on earth.
by smiddy 20 Replies latest jw friends
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*lost*
Julia - I'm buzzing, lol - I got 1 hr sleep
MP
it's ''I AM THAT I AM''
THE GOD OF YOUR FATHERS
THE GOD OF ABRAHAM
THE GOD OF ISAAC AND
THE GOD OF JACOB
to be Gods name forever, ''my memorial unto all generations.
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sir82
The most common JW argument goes something like this:
Luke 4:16-21:
And he came to Naz′a?reth, where he had been reared; and, according to his custom on the sabbath day, he entered into the synagogue, and he stood up to read. 17 So the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed him, and he opened the scroll and found the place where it was written: 18 “Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor, he sent me forth to preach a release to the captives and a recovery of sight to the blind, to send the crushed ones away with a release, 19 to preach Jehovah’s acceptable year.” 20 With that he rolled up the scroll, handed it back to the attendant and sat down; and the eyes of all in the synagogue were intently fixed upon him. 21 Then he started to say to them: “Today this scripture that ? YOU ? just heard is fulfilled.”
Jesus is reading, from a scroll, from the book of Isaiah. He would be reading from the Septuagint, which is the version the people of that time & place would understand.
Many copies of the Septuagint left the Hebrew tetragrammaton (YHWH) untranslated in the Greek text.
Jewish custom was to replace YHWH with "Lord" when reading aloud those verses.
Would Jesus have followed this superstitious custom? Or would he have read the text as written? Surely he would not be ashamed of using his father's name, and would have pronounced it correctly.
It's an argument - far from airtight, but far from implausible as well.
It's not evidence per se, but rather inference.
For JWs trained to never doubt what they read in a Watchtower, it is good enough.
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mP
@lost
I am what i am also fits with my post. in other words, "Your world is what it is"...
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*lost*
yes, sorry, I wasn't contradicting you.
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JWB
Concerning the name 'Jehovah', The Interlinear NIV Hebrew-English Old Testament (1987 edition), published by Zondervan Publishing House, informs us on page xviii:
1) YHWH ("Yahweh," the proper name of God) is written either YHWH, pointed with the vowels of 'DNY ("Lord"), or YHWH pointed with the vowels of 'LHYM ("God"), and is to be pronounced as the word whose vowels it borrows. This deliberate mispointing was an effort by the scribes to make the name of God unpronounceable and thus keep it from being taken in vain (Exod. 20:7; Lev. 24:11). This device was misinterpreted in 1520 by one Galatinus who mixed the vowels of 'DNY with the consonants of YHWH, thus producing the hybrid form Jehovah, which has remained with us to this day. [Underlining mine]
As far as the Christian Greek Scriptures is concerned, there is no orginal Greek word that is synonymous with 'Jehovah'. There only exists 'kyrios' (lord). The WTS had no business adding the word 'Jehovah' to the text. If they wanted to give the suggestion that certain occurrences of 'kyrios' referred to 'Jehovah' they could always have capitalised such in the English text (ie LORD instead of Lord). -
metatron
Do we really think that Jesus was reading aloud in the synagogue, in Greek?
Why not Aramaic or the Hebrew of the day?
And as for the idea that Jesus would not go along with the substitution of 'Adonai' instead of YHWH, that's bullsh*t.
In the accounts about Jesus' death,for example, there are verses he quoted aloud that were transliterated. He could have quoted from any scripture that uses YHWH but did not do so.
Jesus used "Father" over and over again, not YHWH. Even in the Lord's Prayer, the emphasis is on "Our Father". The letters of John never mention YHWH at all. Why? Because he was offering a universal faith, based on the idea that God was a loving Father - not a 'Yahweh' cult.
As for the texts that say 'I have made your name manifest', those are figurative or metaphorical, not referring to the literal name, YHWH.
How so? How could the apostles been completely ignorant of that name? Jewish personal names were based on 'YHWH' ! Like Matthew as Mattanyahu. How about Elijah? Jehoshaphat?
Even the Society admits that the idea in the Prophets, "and then they shall know my name" is FIGURATIVE, not literal and refers to knowing God's power and seeing it in operation (this is in the AID book and its successor).
metatron
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*lost*
metatron, will you hae a look at my post
YHWH v YHVH
we are gethering credible evidence there, you may be able to assist
thanks
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KatyMomof2
I think the JW found the reference in the bible and used it as a way to make themselves different from other groups. Like ONLY they are allowed to use his name. It's the whole "us" against the world mentality. What gives any mortal man the right to call God by his first name. I can't even call my mom by her first name? My active and blindly devoted JW mother did not have an answer to that one.
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wannabefree
This subject was initially a sticking point for me when waking up from the mind control.
This is how I finally came to terms with the issue of Jesus making God's name known.
(John 17:26) And I have made your name known to them and will make it known, in order that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them."
Now think back to Moses.
(Exodus 6:3) . . .And I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as God Almighty, but as respects my name Jehovah I did not make myself known to them.
Was God known by his name before this statement to Moses? Insight on the Scriptures says yes indeed and explains how this verse can be understood.
*** it-1 p. 78 Almighty ***
This could not mean that the name Jehovah was unknown to these patriarchs, since it was frequently used by them as well as by others before them. .... they had not had opportunity to appreciate the full meaning and implications of his personal name (emphasis added)
With this thought in mind, how can Jesus' words at John 17:26 make sense, especially since the Divine Name does not appear at all (with the exception of hallelujah) in the Christian Greek Scriptures?
Think too of the famous Sermon on the Mount, Jesus' most extensive recorded teaching event. Nowhere on this occasion does he teach others to use the Divine Name or does he use it himself.
Look back a little in John chapter 17 ....
(John 17:11) . . .Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name which you have given me
What is "your own name which you have given me"?
The Father gave the Son the name
(Matthew 1:21) She will give birth to a son, and you must call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins."
And what does that name mean?
*** it-2 p. 51 Jesus *** (Je′sus) [Lat. form of the Gr. I·e·sous′, which corresponds to the Heb. Ye·shu′a? orYehoh·shu′a? and means "Jehovah Is Salvation"]
The Son made known God's name (John 17:26) by providing meaning to the name, just as the name was defined through Moses and the acts of deliverance from Egypt, so too the Son gave meaning to God as "Jehovah is Salvation" ... Jesus.
God's name IS made known through the name Jesus! The divine name, while not appearing anywhere in the Greek Scriptures as Jehovah, is in actuality throughout the text as "Jehovah is Salvation" (Jesus). By preaching the name Jesus, God is not relegated secondary to the Son, that is the Name the Father gave, his own name.
Now other texts that seemed problematic take on a whole new meaning and make sense. (At least it did to me.)
Such as ....
(Acts 4:12) . . .there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved."
(Mark 13:13) . . .and YOU will be objects of hatred by all people on account of my name. But he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.
(Acts 1:8) . . .YOU will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon YOU, and YOU will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Ju·de′a and Sa·mar′i·a and to the most distant part of the earth."
(John 14:26) . . .But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach YOU all things and bring back to YOUR minds all the things I told YOU.
(Acts 2:38) . . .Peter [said] to them: "Repent, and let each one of YOU be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for forgiveness of YOUR sins, and YOU will receive the free gift of the holy spirit.
(Acts 3:6) . . .However, Peter said: "Silver and gold I do not possess, but what I do have is what I give you: In the name of Jesus Christ the Naz·a·rene′, walk!"
(Acts 4:18-20) . . .With that they called them and charged them, nowhere to make any utterance or to teach upon the basis of the name of Jesus. 19 But in reply Peter and John said to them: "Whether it is righteous in the sight of God to listen to YOU rather than to God, judge for yourselves. 20 But as for us, we cannot stop speaking about the things we have seen and heard."
(Acts 8:12) . . .But when they believed Philip, who was declaring the good news of the kingdom of God and of the name of Jesus Christ, they proceeded to be baptized, both men and women.
(Acts 9:27-28) . . .and he told them in detail how on the road he had seen the Lord and that he had spoken to him, and how in Damascus he had spoken boldly in the name of Jesus. 28 And he continued with them, walking in and out at Jerusalem, speaking boldly in the name of the Lord;
(1 Peter 4:16) 16 But if [he suffers] as a Christian, let him not feel shame, but let him keep on glorifying God in this name.
(1 Corinthians 5:4-5) . . .in the name of our Lord Jesus, when YOU are gathered together, also my spirit with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 YOU hand such a man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, in order that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.
(Matthew 24:9) 9 "Then people will deliver YOU up to tribulation and will kill YOU, and YOU will be objects of hatred by all the nations on account of my name.
(Matthew 7:21-23) 21 "Not everyone saying to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?' 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.
(Acts 4:29-30) . . .grant your slaves to keep speaking your word with all boldness, 30 while you stretch out your hand for healing and while signs and portents occur through the name of your holy servant Jesus."
(Acts 9:15-17) . . .the Lord said to him: "Be on your way, because this man is a chosen vessel to me to bear my name to the nations as well as to kings and the sons of Israel. 16 For I shall show him plainly how many things he must suffer for my name." 17 So An·a·ni′as went off and entered into the house, and he laid his hands upon him and said: "Saul, brother, the Lord, the Jesus that appeared to you on the road over which you were coming, has sent me forth, in order that you may recover sight and be filled with holy spirit."
(Acts 9:27-29) . . .he had spoken boldly in the name of Jesus. 28 And he continued with them, walking in and out at Jerusalem, speaking boldly in the name of the Lord; 29 and he was talking and disputing with the Greek-speaking Jews. . . .
(Matthew 18:20) . . .For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst."
.... And so on, and so on