If man evolved?

by tornapart 427 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Heaven
    Heaven

    A neighbour 2 doors down from my Dad had to cut down one of his giant maple trees a few years back. It had died. I was checking out the stump afterwards, counting the rings. I estimated that the tree had been around 200 years old. Amazingly enough, the width of the rings were fairly even in size.

    Last weekend I was at a friend's house. He had trimmed up his neighbour's Mulberry trees last year and I had asked him to give me the trimmings as I wanted to use them for the base of my small Hugelkulturs (no dig garden beds). Mulberry's are leguminous trees and give nitrogen back to the soul. I was looking at the trunks of these Mulberry's and I said to my friend, "I estimate those trees are anywhere from 10 to 20 years old."

    He looked at me with a rather surprised look on his face. He said "Yes. Actually, they are 16 years old." Once you know roughly how big a tree ring is for each year, you get to know the age of a tree just by sizing up the circumference of it's trunk.

    What is truly amazing about trees is that what you see above ground is just a fraction of what is actually going on. Their roots are part of a massive underground network. Nutrients from one tree do transfer to nearby trees. They are also an integral part of our air and water systems on Earth.

    To paraphrase Bill Mollison about forest systems:

    "We don't think of this as being stable in the sense of a conrete building or concrete road. It's stable in the sense of constant adjustments like when you ride a bicycle. It has a dynamic stability. It's not like a machine where we can screw on fittings or put wires between part of the system. Here we rely on a fungus to do its job to make the connection. Therefore, if we lose the forests, we lose our only instructors. There are 100s of thousands of things to learn in here. And people must see these forests and wilderness as the greatest education system we have on this planet.
    We could lose all the universities, and we would lose nothing. But If we lose the forests, we lose everything."

  • James Brown
    James Brown

    Tell me how do you get a 4.5 billion year old earth from counting tree rings, ice cores and algae on the

    bottom of a lake?

  • cantleave
    cantleave

    Maybe Kent Hovinds videos are like an airplane joke to some people

    Sadly they are not Jokes, parents use them to "educate" their children. This is abuse!

    James you keep making statements without any evidence. You have asked us to view hours of unadultrated bullshit and have not taken the time to read a paper that will take 15 miutes max.

    Dating rocks is nothing like that there is no machine that dates the rocks it is a bunch of hocus pocus. Its all circular assumptions. Someone takes a geiger counter and counts the beaps and makes a lot of assumptions based on those beeps. It is a very inaccurate means of making an assumption.

    Just because you do not understand or want to remain ignorant does not make the multiplicity of methods used to date rocks "hocus pocus".

    Being a tool maker in your younger days doesn't make you a scientist.

  • James Brown
    James Brown

    James brown: so no circularity in that instance? Bohm as far as I can see, no cirular reasoning that you have revealed to me. As I say my problem is with the dating of rocks by radiation.

  • cantleave
    cantleave

    As I say my problem is with the dating of rocks by radiation.

    Why do say that? You keeping stating it, but give no explanation as to why......

  • bohm
    bohm

    James brown: okay, but lets keep it in the thousands of years for now. Suppose the leaf has a c14 date of about 7000 years, and the scientists conclude this support c14 as a dating method. Is there any circularity involved?

  • Heaven
    Heaven

    Tell me how do you get a 4.5 billion year old earth from counting tree rings, ice cores and algae on the

    bottom of a lake?

    From USGS website, short answer:

    The best age for the Earth comes not from dating individual rocks but by considering the Earth and meteorites as part of the same evolving system in which the isotopic composition of lead, specifically the ratio of lead-207 to lead-206 changes over time owing to the decay of radioactive uranium-235 and uranium-238, respectively.

  • James Brown
    James Brown

    Also, it is fine to question science and dating methods. But the default answer when things are unknown is not "God did it" and certainly, while it is fine for people to keep the idea of an intelligent force starting it all, it is abundantly clear that the Bible is totally unreliable for dates and historical accuracy. If you want to go to a default "We don't know" and say "I think an intelligence did it" maybe we could talk

    On the way out. I agree with you.

  • Comatose
    Comatose

    James an answer on my cave question? Would you not agree that's an accurate indicator of an earth older than 7000 years?

  • James Brown
    James Brown

    James brown: okay, but lets keep it in the thousands of years for now. Suppose the leaf has a c14 date of about 7000 years, and the scientists conclude this support c14 as a dating method. Is there any circularity involved?

    My point is nobody understands radiometric dating well enough to explain it in there own words.

    So I cant show anybody in their own words where the circular reasoning comes in.

    Ken Hovind says in his videos that very few if any understand how this radiometric dating works

    and the folks here are proving that to me.

    If there was a scientist here who could write on the 5th grade level which is the level most people read

    and comprehend at and explain their hypothesis, I could explain their circular reasoning.

    If you have a hypothesis explain it in one or 2 paragraphs.

    What cofty wrote to me does not explain how anybody determines the age of a rock.

    The answer should go something like.

    A person takes a rock to a laboratory and ask the technician to tell him how old he guesses the rock

    is. Then the technician takes a Geiger counter and counts the beeps and he is counting for x amount of beeps

    because the technician is guessing the rock is emitting a certain kind and amount of radiation because.....

    And why is he assuming the rock is emitting such and such an isotope.

    If he cant assume what the rock is emitting or where the rock came from he cant date the rock.

    And if he assumes where it came from he is using circular reasoning. He is calibrating his clock

    with his circular reasoning which is not scientific.

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