WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TESTING WITH EVIL NAD ALLOWING OTHERS TO DO IT?

by blondie 15 Replies latest jw friends

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  blondie

  *** w09 4/15 p. 6 par. 16 Job Held High the Name of Jehovah ***

  Even when crushed by the news of the death of his children, Job did not ascribe anything improper to God. Although Job wrongly attributed his loss to God, (no scripture is reference here but this is what they should quoted/cited)

  (Job 1:21) . . .Jehovah himself has given, and Jehovah himself has taken away.. . .

  *** w06 8/15 p. 22 par. 10 Job—A Man of Endurance and Integrity ***

  10 Job suffered a disadvantage, one that we need not experience. He did not know why these calamities had come upon him. Job mistakenly concluded that in some way “Jehovah himself [had] given, and Jehovah himself [had] taken away.” (Job 1:21) Possibly, Satan deliberately sought to give Job the impression that it was God who had caused his affliction.

  ----------So is the WTS suggesting that jws today know they have been singled out by Satan when family members die?

  ***w1110/1p.52GodDoesNotReallyCare—IsItTrue?

  ***

  Jehovah God does not cause evil. (James 1:13) While he could remove evil at any time, he allows corrupt society to exist for now in order to settle moral issues that were raised at the start of human history.

  (James 1:13) When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone.

  *** w07 8/15 p. 18 You Can Deal With Injustice! ***

  Jehovah may even have reasons for not correcting a certain situation. As part of our Christian training, he may permit us to experience injustice. Of course, ‘with evil things God does not try anyone.’ (James 1:13) Still, he may allow a situation to develop without his intervention, and he can sustain those who respond to such training

  -----so God is an accomplice and because he allows it to happen

  *** w98 4/1 p. 26 My Life as a Leper—Joyful and Spiritually Blessed ***

  So when they are afflicted with leprosy, they believe that God is somehow responsible. Some are deeply depressed about their condition. Others are angry and say: “Don’t talk to us about a God who is loving and merciful. If that were true, this sickness would go away!” Then we read and reason on James 1:13, which says: ‘With evil things God does not try anyone.’ Next we explain why Jehovah allows disease to afflict people, and we point to his promise of a paradise earth where no one will be sick.—Isaiah 33:24.

  ----So why does God allow disease only to affect some and at times the bible reports God used his representatives to heal others?

  Amazing how adding those words "permit" and "allow" distances God from responsibility in the minds of the WTS leaders.

  So God does not test people with evil things, but he allows others to do so? (I don't believe this happened to Job but is a teaching story)
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  Oubliette

  Why would anyone that could prevent pain and suffering allow it?

  The WT answer has always been that there is a larger, grander purpose: Universal Sovereignty.

  But when you really analyze it, does it make sense? No.

  It's like me being upset because the ants outside my house disobey me. According to the Bible narrative as explained by JWs, God is a narcissist that is willing to allow terrible--albeit preventable--things to happen to humans because his reputation is at stake!

  After giving this careful consideration for several decades, I've concluded that God--if there is a God--could not possibly be so immature and self-centered. If, on the outside chance, a Supreme Being exists that does indeed have this serious emotional personality disorder, then He is unworthy of my concern, let alone my devotion.

  The Bible, particularly as interpreted by JWs, paints Jehovah as a petty tyrant given to capricious, unpredictable temper tantrums not unlike an abusive control-freak.

  I'm not having any of that myself.

  Oubliette
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  return of parakeet

  My dub brother has been married to a mentally disturbed dub for 40 years (she wasn't like that when they married), was screwed over my his dub business partner, and is now in his 60s, nearly destitute, and has a menial job working for a dub half his age.

  His fellow dubs at the KH say he's being "tested." My dub mother nearly goes into hysterics trying to understand what her son could have done so wrong that Jehovah has allowed him to be "tested" for so many years.

  I always hoped that my mother would come to understand that Jehovah's allowing my brother to be tested is the same as inflicting the pain himself. But no -- Jehovah can do no wrong.

  So she goes on believing that it's ok for Jehovah to stand by while Satan keeps stabbing my brother in the back.

  Sick, perverse thinking.
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  Oubliette

  When GOOD things happen to a JW, it is "a blessing from Jehovah."

  When BAD things happen to a JW, it is "persecution from Satan, which Jehovah allows to refine that individual."

  on the other hand ...

  When GOOD things happen to someone that is NOT a JW, it is only the "peace of wicked people." - Psalm 73:3

  When BAD things happen to someone that is NOT a JW, it is "proof that they do not have God's blessing."

  This is a can't lose theology!
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  Ding

  Why would anyone that could prevent pain and suffering allow it?

  Parents often allow their children to make bad decisions which have painful consequences.

  In fact, parents who try to control every aspect of their children's lives and shield them from all the painful consequences of life generally end up with offspring who never mature.

  If this analogy is a good one, then God is more concerned with the development of character than will making some point about sovereignty.

  I think the WTS tries to act like controlling parents, dictating everything from facial hair to skirt length to shirt colors. Does this make obedient JWs mature individuals of character or simply borg drones?
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  Oubliette

  DING: Parents often allow their children to make bad decisions which have painful consequences.

  True, but that's not the same as a parent sitting idly by and watching their child be abused, molested or murdered and doing nothing when and if they could stop it.

  Your point, however is a good one. Often we learn the most from our mistakes. A wise parent will allow those which are recoverable and which are a result of the child's decisions, not someone else's.

  DING: I think the WTS tries to act like controlling parents, dictating everything from facial hair to skirt length to shirt colors. Does this make obedient JWs mature individuals of character or simply borg drones?

  Clearly, the WTBTS does NOT want mature, independent thinkers; they want obedient followers.
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  *lost*

  Ding - excellent
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  return of parakeet

  Ding: " Parents often allow their children to make bad decisions which have painful consequences.... If this analogy is a good one, then God is more concerned with the development of character than will making some point about sovereignty. "

  Many years ago, my 10-year-old niece ran in front of a car, lingered in a coma for a month, and then died.

  How did God's allowing this "bad decision" develop my brother-in-law's character?
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  blondie

  I see from the answers that I should clarify that these things are done to a person from an outside source not as a result of a bad choice by that person.

  Remember I used the example of Job. Is it right for children to die for the sins of the parents? (Think of Armageddon and the deaths of even babies)

  What bad choices had his children (apparently grown) done for their deaths to be used as a test for Job.

  What bad choices had the servants of Job done for their deaths to be used as a test for Job.

  What bad choices had Job made to be struck with a vile disease that made him wish for death.

  (It may just be me but I see a little of the WTS philosophy in some of these answers above) Thanks for responding.

  Can you imagine a parent (God) being approached by another person questioning the motives of their adult child for loving them and then allow this person to kill their grandchildren, their employees, and finally infecting them with a horrible, painful illness?

  Job's children may be resurrected in the WTS paradise on earth in the future, but based on the WTS doctrine that the resurrected will not marry or have children, their chance to marry and have children would have been specifically taken away from them to prove God's righteouness.
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  return of parakeet

  "Can you imagine a parent (God) being approached by another person questioning the motives of their adult child for loving them and then allow this person to kill their grandchildren, their employees, and finally infecting them with a horrible, painful illness?"

  Ding stated that God allows these things to build character in the victim, not to prove his children love him best.

  I don't see how Job's character was any better after the calamities he experienced. The only result I saw was that Job got new children, employees, and animals.

  No loving parent, heck, not even an extremely abusive one, would allow all the things God allowed to one of his favored children. God is as evil as Satan in that parable. In a court of law, he would be considered an accessory to murder and get the needle.