Since when is independent thinking equivalent to disobedience?

by I_love_Jeff 11 Replies latest jw friends

  • I_love_Jeff
    I_love_Jeff

    The Jehovah's Witnesses say that Adam decided to thinking independently and eat from the forbidden tree thus committing a terrible sin-disobeying. How is thinking freely equivalent to disobedience?

    "In keeping with the principle of this proverb, Adam acted selfishly and his foolish thinking ‘distorted his way.' His heart turned from Jehovah God, and he set out on his own selfish, independent course. Why, Adam became such an ingrate that he blamed his Creator and thus made himself an enemy of the Most High! Adam's sin brought his own way and that of his family to ruin." Watchtower Magazine 11/15/92

    "Is the often heard Protestant go-to-the-church-of-your-choice mentality any different from the independent thinking that led Adam and Eve into erroneous belief and subsequent trouble?" Awake Magazine 9/8/89

    So in other words, do the Jehovah's Witnesses just simply have their Superiors (slave class) think for them since they are the annointed ones? Wow talk about CONTROL. The Watchtower deceitfully uses the the eisegetical approach to Scripture.

  • zeb
    zeb

    eisegetical.. Please whatdoes that mean?

  • new hope and happiness
    new hope and happiness

    I think independent thinking is thinking. Non independent thinking is somebody else doing my thinking. ( i think)

  • HarryMac
    HarryMac

    No thinking on your part is necessary.

    That's why it is beneficial (and compulsory) to go over the Kingdom Ministry where it will be explained to you how to book a hotel room for the convention. Also, how to behave, and so many other tips.

    Questions from our Readers: If I'm just about ready to retire... sure I can give this a miss?

    Answer: No.

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    eisegetical.. Please whatdoes that mean?

    For zeb: click HERE.

  • TotallyADD
    TotallyADD

    It does seem strange that God gave all humans independent thinking but are condemn for using it. That's why listening to writings of over 4000 years ago usually makes on sense. It was just some story some person made up. Totally ADD

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot
    I_Love_Jess - "Since when is independent thinking equivalent to disobedience?"

    Since it has a tendency to - by virtue of logic and reason - lead to the conclusion that the WTS's claims of legitimate authority are spurious.

  • blondie
    blondie

    *** w77 12/1 p. 723 pars. 22-25 Is Your Advice Hard to Take? ***

    22 The Pharisees used the tyranny of authority when officers sent out to arrest Jesus returned without him because they were impressed with Jesus’ teaching. “You have not been misled also, have you?” the Pharisees asked. “Not one of the rulers or of the Pharisees has put faith in him, has he? But this crowd that does not know the Law are accursed people.” The Pharisees did not use reason, but declared that wise people rejected Jesus, only the stupid listened to him.—John 7:45-49.

    23 When we advise others we should use reason and scriptures, not demanding compliance because of a position we might have. (Phil. 4:5) We should be like Paul, who did not use his position as an apostle to pressure people. Instead, he commended them for checking to see whether his teaching was based on the Bible. “They received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so. Therefore many of them became believers.”—Acts 17:11, 12.

    24 The Devil used Scripture when he tempted Jesus in the wilderness, and Jesus used scriptures to refute him. Both used scriptures, but with this difference: Satan misapplied them, but Jesus used them properly. (Matt. 4:1-10) We should never twist texts to serve our own purpose, as Satan did. Let us make sure that God is saying what we say that he is saying!

    25 For example, in Romans chapter 14 we are cautioned not to stumble weak ones relative to food or drink or anything. Does this mean that if in a large family one member claims he is stumbled because coffee is served, no coffee should be served? Or that one must wear black shoes because someone is “stumbled” by brown ones? Is there not some limiting factor governing application of this counsel? The context relates to matters of faith, to days that some considered holy, to meats that some thought defiled. The counsel concerns matters of conscience, and in this area we should make concessions helpful to others. But it is not a blanket instruction to cater to every personal whim that has no bearing on faith.

    *** w11 4/15 p. 14 par. 4 Make Decisions That Honor God ***Other matters that have to do with health care, though, are not clear-cut and require that each of us make a personal decision as to what treatment we will accept or reject. Our loved ones may have strong opinions on these issues. However, when deciding about those matters, each dedicated baptized Christian needs to carry “his own load” of responsibility. (Gal. 6:4, 5) Our primary concern is to maintain a good conscience before God, not men.—1 Tim. 1:5.

    --------------------

    Do beards have a bearing on faith?

    Do skirt lengths have a bearing on faith?

    But is it really a PERSONAL decision? Can you think of ways you were "encouraged" to follow the WTS way of thinking in a "personal" matter?

    *** w02 4/15 p. 21 par. 11 Guide Your Steps by Godly Principles ***

    Today, Christians want to be guided by Jehovah’s principles when it comes to personal matters, such as choice of associates, entertainment, music, and reading material. (1 Corinthians 15:33; Philippians 4:8) As we grow in knowledge, understanding, and appreciation of Jehovah and his standards, our conscience, our moral sense, will help us to apply divine principles under whatever circumstances we face, even in very private matters. Guided by Bible principles, we will not look for loopholes in God’s laws; nor will we imitate those who try to see how far they can go without actually breaking a certain law. We realize that such thinking is self-defeating and harmful.—James 1:22-25.

    *** w00 5/1 p. 16 par. 14 Hear What the Spirit Has to Say ***

    A good conscience, one that is Bible-trained, can remind us of the way in which the spirit wants us to walk. There may be times when neither the Scriptures nor our Bible-based publications comment specifically on a particular situation in which we may find ourselves. Still, our conscience may sound a warning, cautioning us against a potentially harmful course. In such cases, ignoring the dictates of our conscience may, in effect, mean ignoring what Jehovah’s spirit says. On the other hand, by learning to rely on our trained Christian conscience, we can make good choices even when there is no specific direction in writing. It is vital to keep in mind, however, that when there is no divinely provided principle, rule, or law, it would be improper to impose the judgments of our own conscience on fellow Christians in what are purely personal matters.—Romans 14:1-4; Galatians 6:5.

    By 1981 did the WTS feel it was a good thing for people to check that what the APOSTLE Paul taught was based on the bible? Were only the unbaptized to check? Were Christians not to be wary of those in the congregation speaking twisted things?

    *** w81 2/15 pp. 18-19 Do We Need Help to Understand the Bible? ***

    To help us to understand God’s Word in these “last days,” Jehovah God has lovingly provided a visible organization under Christ—the “faithful and discreet slave.” The way Jehovah God has prospered the activities carried on under its direction can leave no doubt in the minds of dedicated Christians as to Jehovah God’s approval being upon it.—Matt. 24:45-47.

    A NOBLE-MINDED VIEW

    How shall we view the spiritual food provided by this “faithful and discreet slave”? Should it be viewed critically—‘Oh, well, it might be true but then again it might not be and so we have to scrutinize it very critically’? Some apparently have felt that way about it. To support their way of thinking they have quoted Acts 17:11, which says of newly interested persons at Beroea: “Now the latter were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so.”

    But does this mean that those Beroeans were looking for flaws in the message they were hearing, or that their attitude was one of doubting? Does this set a precedent for regarding critically the publications brought forth by the “faithful and discreet slave,” with a view to finding fault? Not at all!

    First of all, let us note the setting of the statement about the noble-minded Beroeans. Paul, accompanied by Silas, was on his second missionary tour. Due to persecution that arose, the brothers at Thessalonica sent them on to Beroea. In Beroea they met sincere Jews who had strong faith in God’s Word. These were not Christians yet. They were simply interested persons who had to satisfy themselves that what Paul was telling them had the support of the Hebrew Scriptures.

    Up to this time, these devout Jews in Beroea may never have heard of Jesus Christ. What Paul was telling them was entirely new. So those noble-minded Jews in Beroea searched the Scriptures daily to make certain that the references that Paul gave were really part of God’s Word. And with what mental attitude did they pursue their studies? With a skeptical attitude, trying to prove Paul wrong? No, they were altogether unlike Paul’s critics on Mars Hill, for we read that they heard Paul’s testimony with “the greatest eagerness of mind.”—Acts 17:11, 32.

    These Beroeans listened with a readiness, yes, an eagerness, to believe. Thus not only were they open-minded, but they were wanting to have this “good news” proved true. In fact, for a person to acquire faith he must have “the will to believe.” If he is determined not to believe, then no amount of evidence will convince him; for if a person looks for them he can always find excuses, plausible reasons for not accepting the accountability that belief will bring upon him. As the apostle Paul well said: “Faith is not a possession of all people.” (2 Thess. 3:2) But the Beroeans had the will to believe. They considered what they heard with a receptive frame of mind. As a result, “many of them became believers, and so did not a few of the reputable Greek women and of the men.”—Acts 17:12.

    Jesus’ disciples wrote many letters to Christian congregations, to persons who were already in “the way of the truth.” (2 Pet. 2:2) But nowhere do we read that those brothers first, in a skeptical frame of mind, checked the Scriptures to make certain that those letters had Scriptural backing, that the writers really knew what they were talking about.

    OUR VIEW OF THE “SLAVE”

    We can benefit from this consideration. If we have once established what instrument God is using as his “slave” to dispense spiritual food to his people, surely Jehovah is not pleased if we receive that food as though it might contain something harmful.We should have confidence in the channel God is using. At the Brooklyn headquarters from which the Bible publications of Jehovah’s Witnesses emanate there are more mature Christian elders, both of the “remnant” and of the “other sheep,” than anywhere else upon earth.

    True, the brothers preparing these publications are not infallible. Their writings are not inspired as are those of Paul and the other Bible writers. (2 Tim. 3:16) And so, at times, it has been necessary, as understanding became clearer, to correct views. (Prov. 4:18) However, this has resulted in a continual refining of the body of Bible-based truth to which Jehovah’s Witnesses subscribe. Over the years, as adjustments have been made to that body of truth, it has become ever more wonderful and applicable to our lives in these “last days.” Bible commentators of Christendom are not inspired either. Despite their claims to great knowledge, they have failed to highlight even basic Bible truths—such as the coming Paradise earth, the importance of God’s name, and the condition of the dead.

    Rather, the record that the “faithful and discreet slave” organization has made for the past more than 100 years forces us to the conclusion that Peter expressed when Jesus asked if his apostles also wanted to leave him, namely, “Whom shall we go away to?” (John 6:66-69) No question about it. We all need help to understand the Bible, and we cannot find the Scriptural guidance we need outside the “faithful and discreet slave” organization.

    ---------------

    So were the letters viewed as inspired when Paul wrote them and sent them to the congregations? Or were they only letters and more than the approx 14 some humans decided were inspired after the face? Did Paul send other letters that did not make it into the canon?

    Since the first NT book is said to be Matthew written in 41 CE, what did Christians use for eight years and after as books and letters were written? Did these books and letters have to be "adjusted" and "clarified"?

    Were those speaking "twisted" things non-Christians? So Christians had to examine what the overseers especially said in light of the scriptures not as stated above in 1981 WT. So it is correct to test what the WTS prints and says.

    (Acts 20:28-30) 28 Pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed YOU overseers, to shepherd the congregation of God, which he purchased with the blood of his own [Son]. 29 I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among YOU and will not treat the flock with tenderness, 30 and from among YOU yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.

    Years later Christians were warned again.

    (1 John 4:1) 4 Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world.

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    Obviously, joke-hova doesn't want people to be all they can be. Rather, that thing wants us enslaved. Disobedience is a sin when you are the master and the subjects are your slaves.

  • Bugbear
    Bugbear

    The hole idea of giving independant thinking (a brain with intelligence) and IQ with un avarage of 100 and then say dont use it, it is as absurd as if I have got a car that could be given to fellow or brother or family member saying:

    "Here is the car that you could use for getting you to your job or the hospital or wathever, but you are supposed NOT to use it. So I keep the kees to ensure that no onelse will be hurt for your bad driving."

    Isn´t that humerous? Or is it just i game that a person with a mental dissorder like to play.

    Bugbear

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