"You Are Expected to Believe As We Do&quot...

by stevieb1 17 Replies latest jw friends

  • stevieb1
    stevieb1

    I am currently having visits made on me by the elders,who are trying to help me "unbelieve" the things I have learned to be true from the Bible, which naturally contradict WT doctrine.

    As well as asking me "where else will you go" they said that members of the public walking into a Kingdom Hall expect all within it to be Jehovah's Witnesses holding firmly to their doctrines and not holding divergent viewpoints like I do. They said it would not be proper for someone to hold a belief that was contrary to the Society and still be expected to remain a JW, even in name only.

    I have stated to them that I can no longer preach the WT version of the "good news" so they automatically assumed that I am not obeying Jesus' command to preach.

    I am in a bit of a predicament as you can see. They also assumed that I cannot say "Amen" to a prayer from the platform that might mention "Jehovah's organization" or "slave class" and such-like. Even some of the songs I find that I cannot conscientiously sing.

    On the plus side I have given some of the elders photocopies of portions of Ray Franz's books, so can I ask that your prayers are with them that they too can see Bible truths that I have come across?

  • Frenchy
    Frenchy

    You are in a difficult position. Tread carefully. Your attempt to help others see the real truth may very well be the very thing that will be used to oust you from the congregation. Consider carefully the effect that the shunning will have on you, esp. if you have family in the organziation.

    Best wishes to you.

  • Yerusalyim
    Yerusalyim

    StevieB,
    It's a tough spot to be in, so why do you stay in at all? Just curious.

    Why do you keep double posting threads with different titles? Looking for different opinions?

    YERUSALYIM
    "Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
    [Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]

  • CornerStone
    CornerStone

    Hang-in there StevieB1,

    I'm there myself so I know how you feel. I stopped going to meetings altogether. Now I'm just waiting for God to lead me where the grass is greener, so to speak. I'm married to a lifelong JW so it's tricky.
    Be brave. The roads' bumpy but you'll get through. Remeber, what's impossible with man IS possible with God. Trust Him. He will see you through your darkest valley.

    CornerStone

  • RedhorseWoman
    RedhorseWoman

    StevieB1, you've chosen a tough road, but perhaps some of your efforts will pay off. Here's hoping......

  • 2SYN
    2SYN

    And you haven't been disfellowshipped yet? WTF? YOU'RE LUCKY TO BE ALIVE!


    I'm sure glad we don't vote anymore like we did before we got the truth. Now we get to complain about everything ALL the politicians do!
    [SYN], UADA - Unseen Apostate Directorate, Africa

  • Reborn2002
    Reborn2002

    On the plus side I have given some of the elders photocopies of portions of Ray Franz's books

    My friend, you just gave those elders the ammo needed with which to DF you.

    I wish the best for you, and I also hope that those elders will at the very least CONSIDER the facts and proofs given, but it is highly unlikely. The programming is so strong they will view you an apostate, and remove you to "cleanse" the congregation.

    If your not assimiliated and blindly following the cookie-cutter routine, you are a gangrene of the body of the Congregation and must be removed.

    I dont like saying any of the above, I am just stating facts. If you are or were a JW, you know Im right.

    Best wishes to you.

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  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Steve

    If you don't want to get dfd, you might try something like telling the elders that you are able to keep your opinions to yourself, but if you hear about your dfing or daing, you will institute a libel/defamation suit against the elders responsible and the cong. Tell them, you are hiring a lawyer, and henceforth, all comunication must be through him.

    This may keep you from being oficially dfed. As long as it's not official, you may keep some jw friends/family.

    On the other hand, if you are dfd, they are off your back for good.

    SS

  • desertflower
    desertflower

    Stevieb
    Seems like you never know when the elders will come to get you.
    We only had 1 call and all they wanted to know was, it the org.
    the channel of communication from God. We told them we had
    questions and had to check the bible out for more information.
    That has been 2-1/2 yrs ago. Not one word since. Not even a
    follow up sheparding call. So we think we are safe just trying
    to slip away quitely because of our children. Well now they just
    said they are changing terriorty and one our daughters that will
    talk to us may have to go to the kingdom hall that we were in.
    Makes you wonder if now they may want to know if she associaties
    with us. We are not df nor da. only because of family.
    I hope things work out for you .
    desertflower

  • troubled
    troubled

    Stevieb1

    You said,

    ". . .They said it would not be proper for someone to hold a belief that was contrary to the Society and still be expected to remain a JW, even in name only."

    The goal is unity of belief. However, there are gray areas. Any truthful person is going to have some areas which they do not fully understand or agree with. However, most in this situation (who want to stay in the organization) choose to keep their disagreements private so as not to stir the pot. They do not feel it necessary to "explain" or "confess" every private thought, nor do they want to stumble a brother or sister whose conscience would be bothered by the disclosure.

    You said, "I have stated to them that I can no longer preach the WT version of the "good news" so they automatically assumed that I am not obeying Jesus' command to preach."

    Have they forbidden you to go in service? If not, do you WANT to go in service? If so, can you go to the doors and share with the householder the aspects that you CAN conscientiously endorse? If you don't want to go, then it isn't really a problem, is it?

    I am in a bit of a predicament as you can see. They also assumed that I cannot say "Amen" to a prayer from the platform that might mention "Jehovah's organization" or "slave class" and such-like.

    In all honesty, no one can keep you from saying "Amen" unless they have a hand clasped over your mouth. Also, don't people who come to a meeting from outside often say "Amen" right along with everyone else? Say it if you want to.

    Even some of the songs I find that I cannot conscientiously sing.

    Can you sing the songs you can conscientiously endorse? Do you want to?

    On the plus side I have given some of the elders photocopies of portions of Ray Franz's books, so can I ask that your prayers are with them that they too can see Bible truths that I have come across?

    Here is where I'm afraid that you're hoping you can somehow "change" other people's viewpoint. Unfortunately, you can share info, but you cannot change a person's view, unless they are open to it. (not at the door OR in the congregation).

    I think your predicament is really this:

    "I have seen/read/come to understand that I do not agree with some of the Society's teachings. Therefore, do I want to:

    1) stay in and see if it is corrected over time, or
    2) leave?

    If you want to (1) stay in, you need to figure out how you can do that while not violating your conscience.

    If you want to (2) leave, that's your choice as well.

    But if you are holding out to (3) convert the majority in the congregation to see your new way of thinking, you will be disappointed. (Just the same as a JW who hopes to convert the majority at the doors will be disappointed.) People are people. You cannot change someone's view unless they are open to it. Very few respond; most do not. It's true at the doors - it's true at the Hall.

    What I am saying is, the only thing you really have control over is YOUR OWN religious choice/view. That's really what it comes down to for each of us, ultimately. The bottom line is:

    Despite the differences in your view, do you still want to be a JW?

    Do you still think it is God's organization?

    Can you still be a JW, endorsing the part you feel comfortable with,
    while keeping to yourself private thoughts you know others will not understand/accept?

    Can you trust that things you don't understand will be revealed/resolved in time?

    If you ask yourself these questins, you will eventually make a decision one way or the other.

    Incidentally, I share some of your "predicament." I also have some areas of the organization in question. However, after reading the posts on this forum over the past year, I have seen that the alternative life choices presented here are NOT what I want in my life. Even though I still come here occasionally for information and to re-think/re-weight my choice, I continue to feel that staying in the organization, despite the problems, is still the right thing for me. Here's why:

    What I have noticed from many of the posts here is the following:

    1. Many people on this forum started out with 1 or 2 legitimate, justified reasons for being upset with the organization. However, now many have progressed to the point where they have abandoned three-quarters of the Bible's teachings (its view of morality, idolatry, separateness from the world, belief in the new system, even the existence of God). For them, EVERYTHING in life is now a gray area, a "do it your own way" approach, and a subject for endless philosophical quibbling.

    That is exactly where I was BEFORE becoming a JW. That life style was not satisfying to me. I can't see the logic of leaving the organization because of 10% of the teachings I question, and then exchange it for a situation where everything is, once more, "relative."

    2. I see no evidence that those who have left JWs are any happier now than they were as active JWs. Read the posts for yourself.

    3. Many of the charges on this forum are 15% truth and 85% false. Things are overblown and exaggerated. For instance, the RAND CAM charge, the SWAGGART court case, etc. Even the pedophile issue, as awful as it is, doesn't even begin to compare to the extent of the problem in Christendom, particularly Catholicism. Unfortunately, abuse of children takes place in all cultures, nations, economic groups, nationalities, and yes, religions.

    Yes, it's horrendous. Yes, it should be addressed, taken seriously, and corrected as far as possible. But to expect it to be completely nonexistent in this system is a pie-in-the-sky expectation. When you find an organization without ANY of these problems, please let me know.

    If we look, we are going to find bad things. Even in JWs. It's sad, but true. It's HUMAN. We aren't going to have utopia anywhere right now. If we believe God has an organization, all we can do is take information in and judge what religion (if any) is adhering closest to God's word.

    On the other hand, if you don't think God has an organization, we're talking about a whole different matter of discussion.

    I'm not advising you to turn a blind eye, but to weigh the evidence carefully and don't make any quick decisions. Which is what I am doing. I feel no need to "make" you go one way or the other. But I did feel moved to contribute my two cents worth.

    I'm sure I'll be lambasted for it, but that's OK. We're all entitled to our viewpoint.

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