It hit the fan

by truthseeker1 51 Replies latest jw experiences

truthseeker1

Well, to bring you guys up to speed, here is what happend this weekend.
I told my wife how I was feeling and why I didn't believe the WT was not god's Org. It went pretty bad. She took off to her sisters house and told them what was going on. My brother in law came over (also a witness) to talk with me. I thought he was going to say I was crazy, satanic, apostate and such(my wife was). He actually came over to let me talk and explain why I felt the way I did. I told him about the UN library card, Dateline, 1914/russle/pyramid stuff, all the little things I didn't like about the Org, changing of doctrine, and how confused I am. He said he heard that all before(UN was new tho). He then asked me is there any other religion or belief that is more accurate. I have studied most of them and I feel that the Witnesses have more truth than others. I know you all think I am crazy/brainwashed. When I actually voiced my discrepencies, they seem like little petty reasons why not to be a witness. The next day my father in law came over (PO) by himself. He wanted to know why I was feeling this way. I again tried to explain again all the problems I saw with the Org. When I mentioned the child abuse stuff, he pulled out a letter written from the society explaining the procedure Elders are supposed to take when a child molester is found out in the Cong. It said that if a servent, his position is removed. Civil authorties ARE notified. Even if one person comes forward, this happens. When someone who has molested people in the past comes into the cong. they are told that their history is known and they are not to be seen interacting with children, not even hugging or letting them sit on their lap. Most of my other concerns seemed pretty small when I actually voiced them. He didn't say all you are saying are lies, just that it isn't upbuilding. I don't hear too much about what is right, just what people think is wrong. I'm not too sure what I am going to do, although I am getting together with my father in law to discuss the issues I am having trouble with. I might be back or might not.....
TweetieBird

Hi truth,
I know exactly how you feel. I got up the nerve to talk to a family member about my feelings, the UN issue, etc. and it pretty much went the same way. I am not one to verbalize my thoughts clearly and my family member is quite the opposite. I felt at a huge disadvantage.
One good thing did come out of it, I did some deep soul searching and really thought about whether or not I had been duped by Satan or if everything I had read was true. Something this important deserves much scrutiny.
You are the one that has to decide if it's the truth or not. Good luck!
SixofNine

He didn't say all you are saying are lies, just that it isn't upbuilding.
Marinate on that for while. Decide what kind of person you're going to be. Then get back with me.
Also, and this is just my view, do with it as you will, but I really suggest telling your wife in no uncertain terms that you will not tolerate her calling you or viewing you as crazy or satanic. That's a real relationship killer, IMO.
Unless of course, you are crazy and satanic, lol.
MavMan

truthseeker:
I understand how you feel. I am also in the same search. I started my search to see if JWs were the truth after I was disfellowshipped for immorality. I thought the elders were wrong in disfellowshipping me and I was pissed off. After careful examination of the scriptures and what Jehovah thinks of my practices, I realized that I was wrong and was just kidding myself.
I was also somewhat shocked at some the accusations thrown towards Witnesses by Ex-Witnesses. But you know, everything is a scandal to the ex-Witness, but in the congregation it's not even mentioned. Then I thought, the Clinton/Lowinsky case was a scandal, the Catholic Priests/pedophile is a scandal. I have not seen anything relating to a scandal on the Witnesses. Oh it's a scandal in this forum but what is there to expect from an ex-jw?
Still, I see a value to this forum. I can see clearly how many ex-jws twist and turn the scriptures to validate what they say. This has strengthened my faith in Jehovah. I have enjoyed the debates between YouKnow and AlanF. They are both very intelligent and excellent writers. But when it comes down to it, YouKnow has a purpose in life and his warnings are designed to make you think and meditate on your relationship with Jehovah God. AlanF, although very intelligent, has no purpose in life and does not offer any comfort. He just throws words and words, but does not have a clear message.
I also use this forum to see how many were stumbled by their brothers and sisters. Some were treated very roughly by elders or where victims of gossip. This helps me in not doing this to by brothers and sisters. I have learned a lot from those experiences that I've read.
truthseeker, I believe that with prayer and meditation, you will find the truth. I am always available to talk: [email protected]
truthseeker1

Would a sane person do this:

I think not...LOL
Those are encouraging comments, thanks. Whatever I decide I will decide it FOR myself. Whatever I end up believing in the end, I will follow through.
sleepy

Truthseeker1,
Sometimes it takes a while to get things sorted in our head.
" When I actually voiced my discrepencies, they seem like little petty reasons why not to be a witness"
Lets have a look.
1.1914 not the start of "last days"And the GB knows it but dont tell the witnesses.
2.Governing body demands you only have their thoughts , even privatly about the Bible.Independent thinking is wrong.
3.GB condems other churchs for being joined with the wild beast the UN , while being itself a member.
4.Governing body, has no proff they are chosen by God.
5.Publications contain mis-quotes and errors.
6.Children are allowed to die if they need blood , yet bible does not command this.
7.The rules on blood are inconsistent ( you can take nearly all components of blood seperatly but not together etc.)
8.All predictions have failed.
9.Witness are not told how governing body comes to it decisions nor do they know their qualifications.
10.Beliefs have been changed constantly through out their history.
11.No proof that Jehovahs witnesses are better or more moral people than many non-witnesses.
12.People not allowed to critersize the society or question its beliefs.
13.Witnesses have own version of the bible , yet the translators credentials are not made known.
14.The name Jehovah not found in any manuscript of Greek scriptures.
Plus zillions more.
Are any of these reason good enought not to trust the Governing Body with your life?
Do more reaserch if you are unshure.
Don't fall for the trap of thinking you are bening critical as if this is a negative thing.Would you not encourage a Catholic to be critical of his religion?
Farkel

truth,
What they did is pretty typical.
: He then asked me is there any other religion or belief that is more accurate. I have studied most of them and I feel that the Witnesses have more truth than others.
That's not the point. That's a diversion. The point is whether Jehovah is personally directing the Watchtower Organization or not, not whether dubs have "more truth" than others. If Jehovah was personally directing the organization, those problems would never have occurred or they would have gone away shortly after they surfaced. The plain truth is that many of those problems have been going on for decades and decades.
Your father was making an argument similar to this: "Well, Osama bin Laden has killed far less men than Adolf Hitler, so as long as I can't find a better man than bin Laden, I'll stick with him."
:...When I mentioned the child abuse stuff, he pulled out a letter written from the society explaining the procedure Elders are supposed to take when a child molester is found out in the Cong. It said that if a servent, his position is removed. Civil authorties ARE notified. Even if one person comes forward, this happens. When someone who has molested people in the past comes into the cong. they are told that their history is known and they are not to be seen interacting with children, not even hugging or letting them sit on their lap.
Ask him if elders are FIRST required to contact the WT legal department. (They are.) Ask him why. If he doesn't give the right answer, then tell him the right answer. Tell him it is because WT legal finds out what state the crime occurred in and if that state has a law requiring the reporting of all accusations of molestation, they tell the elders to contact the authorities. If that state does not have such a law, then they tell the elders to handle it internally. Ask him if your state requires such reporting. (He probably doesn't know, but you can find out. It no doubt does.)
Get on Kent's site and print out all the letters to the BOE on this subject. Next time around you'll be better armed!
Farkel
Xander

You're picking at details, which they are good at deflecting. Concentrate on the CORE of what's wrong....
Why does the society prohibit questioning the org at all?
Why MUST you agree completely with their current teachings, when they reserve the right to change them? (But, you cannot attempt to anticipate the changes - that's 'running ahead of the org').
Why do they attempt to regulate, not only your life, but your thoughts, as well?
Don't attack specific older doctrines, ask instead why, 'when Jesus returned in 1914', he picked their organization as the truth, with all of those doctines that have since been overturned. Either the lord in heaven made a mistake then, or the org is mistaken now....
(and, if you ARE going to nitpick, I'dve picked better topics. The UN thing is generally greated with a 'who cares'. The pedophile thing they've always had plausible deniability in. As long as you question specific doctrines that've been overturned, they can deflect the questions with 'new light'.)
You'll need to target specific teachings that are currently unsupportable - ask about 1 Sam 14:32 - why was a loyal army allowed to eat blood for their convenience, and a modern Christian cannot take a transfusion to save their lives? Why do they assume the 144,000 in Revelation is a literal number when the surrounding text in that chapter is figurative? Why do they continue to maintain Jesus died on a stake, when we have proof romans used CROSSES to execute criminals (not stakes - CROSSES)? etc.
(Oh, and in case you feel these are minor issues - tell them that you are certain of your beliefs in these few matters and won't be changing your correct understanding of these things, and see how they react).
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)
A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
sleepy

Mavman.
What does what someone has to offer got to do with anything.
If I have terminal cancer and the doctor says , "don't worry about you're going to be alright, just go home and watch lots of telly and it will go away" and another "look I'm sorry , you're going to die".
Does this mean I should listen to the first guy , because he has somethinhg to offer?
Just because someone carnt offer you a purpose in life or promises for the future does not make them wrong.
Xander

I see Farkel and sleepy beat me to the punch - just as well, their comments are probably better. I'll leave mine up, though, still good advice, me thinks.
I've talked with family 'in'. They do a good job of making YOU the evil party and putting YOU on the defensive. You've really got to come at them prepared, because their canned answers were well-prepared for them.
Just remember, with few exception, as good as their arguments sound, they are just repeating what they've been told to say. If you can get past that, you can really hit them hard.
(Incidently, yes I HAVE found a religion with more truth than the JWs - it's called 'pagan'. It's wonderful - doesn't conflict with what science has found to be true of evolution, doesn't require suspension of disbelief in why an all-powerful god would ignore the plight of his followers, doesn't require belief in some of messiah-ransom arrangement, and it actually provides a reason to love my fellow man - ALL OF THEM - not just fellow members of some cult....)
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)
A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana

It hit the fan

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