On another note, I once heard a brother give a talk where he referred to the arrogant religious leaders of Jesus day as having a certain self sat-is-fa-cation about themselves.
Technically I think the Pharisees were arromagant.
JW Grammar is...
by jw07 33 Replies latest jw friends
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Band on the Run
The closest to perfect English I ever read was a foreign government's Maoist English language newspaper. No native user uses perfect English. It was chilling to read. My English improves depending on the crowd with which I associate. When I am surrounded by prep school grads, it is so much better.
So many people brag about how good they are. I want objective measures. Practicing at a large firm, I understated my skills and interests. Other senior lawyers hear through third parties and voila, I am reponsible for doing the work with a special expertise. There are bright people who believe they are English or French whizes. They are good for a high school level. My standard, though, is native speakers or hard core English or French majors. A doctorate helps. I suppose everything is relevant. Perhaps my retinence is misplaced and a function of the Witness' view of women and education.
I studied French for more than eleven years. My grades were good. My knowledge works in luxury stores and French bistros. I understand French terms in English books where the French word has a closer connotation to the meaning the author wants. They are usually not translated in to English. Pair me with a French major or native speaker and I know nothing. I see that Restaurant French is often listed as a qualifier of one's knowledge.
When I ride the bus or subway, people jab away in oral French. I am lucky if I can catch the meaning of an occasional word. Also, I can read Camus, Satre, Flaubert, Moliere but I don't know the words for vacuum, meat.
Content should matter. I always wondered why the big wigs at Bethel had proper English skills. The very structure of Witness gatherings prevents any sort of thought. As a child, I could not stand aking questions that are directly answered word for word in the paragraph studied. Next, someone who can barely read, inflicts his reading on those who can. It takes forever. I am suprised that people sit so patiently through utter boredom. I just wanted to screech and run, run, run. What is most people feel the same and just sit there out of duty.
There but for the grace of God go I, though. Recently, I had a screaming discussion with a home schooling proponent. My life would be so constricted without my public education. Imagine recess. If anything I was taught below my grade level. "Adult" concepts did not interest me. When I heard God was present at assemblies and conventions, my eyes scanned to find God. I was so impressed that I might meet God.
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HarryMac
I have to chuckle all these posts about poor grammer that contain gramatical, punctuation, typing and spelling errors.
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I'm not a grammar nazi. Yes, I know the thread is about grammar.
I commeneted because I have a much bigger problem with functional illiteracy - especially in those of 'authority'.
I'll admit, I thought my English was quite good too, until I took a year at University - big eye opener.
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Oubliette
exwhyzee: I have to chuckle all these posts about poor grammer that contain gramatical, punctuation, typing and spelling errors.0
Damn! You got me.
I wrote:
This is a elementary school error indicative of the general lack of education among JWs.
When I should have written:
What a rookie mistake. I repent in sackcloth and ashes.This is an elementary school error indicative of the general lack of education among JWs.
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Julia Orwell
Oh god jw grammar has got my goat for years. I'd cringe during public talks. As an English teacher it especially galled me, but you could never correct people because then you're trying to be better than them, window washing school dropouts.
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ohiocowboy
I never fault a JW or EX-JW for bad grammar. Since higher learning is frowned upon, many JW's don't have the skills that many in the "World" have, and I feel that it is very unfair to fault them because of it. The fault should be placed at the top where the rules are made, namely the Watchtower and the Governing Booby-heads.
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poppers
I saw this posted on Facebook a couple of weeks ago: Grammar is important. Capital letters are the difference between "helping your Uncle Jack off a horse" & "helping your uncle jack off a horse."
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HarryMac
Yes, OhioCowoby, you do have a point.
However, there were plenty of Elders and MS's that capitalized handsomely on having power over 'poindexters' and 'nerds'.
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new hope and happiness
I am sure in most cases children of parents who are university educated will have similar expectations placed on them. The expectation i believe often creates both a need in the child and a value for education.
Like all comprehensive school kids my education began in year one at aged twelve. The year was divided in to 6 classes. It was pretetermined even at twelve years of age, which children would go to university .Most kids in the two strongest two classes ( decided in year one) went on to university.I cant remember any in my class who went to university. Now had i gone to a grammer school i think the school expectations would be all students aim for university.
. I also think it fair to say many good and loving parents have not appreciated how benificial university would be for there children. I also think it fair to say in todays world of ever increacing modern tecnology a good education has become more essential than with previouse generations. It is my hope that more children in the kingdom hall will come to realize this for themselfs.
In fact i am very optamistic this will happen and i think its a real threat for the W.T.organisation.
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Mum
When I was in high school, I was one of the top English students. I started attending the KH in my sophomore year. The congregtion I attended was comprised of much better educated people than average dubs. It was in the most exclusive part of town. I did not live in that part of town, but the people who studied with me did. I never found any grammatical or spelling errors in any Watchtower literature, but it was written on about a fifth-grade level. Even in that congregation there were some who could use the English language about as well as an elementary school pupil.
When I moved to other locations, the language skills of the dubs were, overall, much worse. It was obvious that some of the men could not really understand the talk outlines and would interpret them in strange ways. The readers at the Watchtower study would mispronounce common words. The elder that I married was semi-literate at best, but still felt he was given to me by Jehovah to explain the world and everything else to me.
To be fair, I have met a lot of non-JW's who were just as handicapped with language skills. I have worked with many people and attended college classes with many people who did not understand when to use an apostrophe, or understand what a run-on sentence or a fragment was.
Surely it's easier to deceive people who don't understand the nuances of language, so JW's have an advantage with such people and draw them in.