by Darth Rutherford 34 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Morris has gone Old School, maybe the Wt. is plannig to reprint the old Paradise Lost book with all the pics of pets, kids, and adults falling into the split open earth, that should scar a new generation of JW children.-
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Good thing WT reminds JW parents to not allow their kids to play "violent" video games.
WT hates competition.
Who needs video games when you can listen to Morris, a.k.a. "Oscar Meyer", talk about human beings being roasted like hot dogs? Good times, good times.
Another thing they miss is that the Father appointed Yahweh as the Intercessor between Himself and man. JWs have never understood that Jesus was the great I AM, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Methodist scholar Dr. Margaret Barker has written extensively on the ancient views of the Israelites regarding Yahweh and she notes that Jehovah was the son of El (Eloah or plural, Elohim). He was not the Father God, but a son of the Father God. This makes sense when one considers that if the Father dealt with prophets "face to face" as with Moses, there would have been no Intercessor. Barker's hypothesis is that Elohim is the "Most High God" and that Jehovah was considered one of his sons. There were 70 Sons that ruled the 70 nations, and Jehovah was the "God of Israel." Jesus' insistance that he was Jehovah is the claim that the Jews of his day considered most blasphemous. To claim to be the Messiah was one thing, but the Jews failed to understand the beliefs of their fathers, or to understand that his name would be "the Mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace." (Isa. 9:6)
In this case, Jesus is not identified with the Father God, but the Father of the Nation, the Father of the Patriarchs, and the Father of Salvation. Potentates such as kings and the Roman Emporer (and later the popes) all were called "Father" or "Holy Father." And in the United States, we refer to the "founding fathers" and, in the case of Abraham Lincoln, "Father Abraham." Since Jesus is the King of Kings and the Lords of Lords, the Beginning and the End, he is rightfully called the "everlasting Father." So while he wasn't the Father he spoke of, he was "the Mighty God" and Immanuel means, "God with us."
This does not mean that because man has an intercessor, that God cannot also call prophets and apostles. Yahweh was man's intercessor in the days of the great exodus, and as one scholar noted:
As Moses recounted the events that occurred on Mount Sinai, he reiterated God's anger and displeasure over the Israelites' disobedience (Exodus 9:18–20, 22–23). At that time, Moses, as a type of Christ, interceded for the Israelites and through much prayer (forty days and nights according to the text–9:25), saved them from destruction (10:10).
And when Jesus rose from the dead, he gave Peter and the other apostles the Keys of the Kingdom, and did not disband the apostles. If the Governing Body wants to claim to be latter-day apostles ("sent ones"), they can. But they cannot rob the role and title of intercessor from Jesus/Yahweh. Jesus will remain the intercessor until the end of the Millennium, and following the final judgment and the final resurrection of man, and the glorification of the earth, he will present the earth to the Father and it will join His other creations, which number more than the grains of sand on the shore.
That pic is screepy. ( scary + creepy )
DR, great post as usual. We do pretty good around here for a band of misfits, IMO. This one thought stood out to me for some reason:
" For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all-[this is] what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times.
I feel like this verse is also saying that Christ being YOUR mediator will be shown to YOU at it's own particular time. What do you think? I haven't researched it yet, but I just felt that maybe it could be true.
Why do I need one?
What needs to be mediated?
This is a biggie for me... I can't accept that this group of men has inserted itself between Christ and us. How dare they? Jesus said we should call no one our leader except him. He is the ONLY ONE who should be between us and God.
I was watching a documentary about William Tyndale recently and his bug bear was exactly the same. He refused to accept the Catholic Church/Pope as mediator and only accepted Christ as personal mediator/saviour.
So, apparently Jesus is not only a heroin addict but he'll jump in to take another junkie's hit.
Nice.
I fail to see how retarded religious art like this would draw any person with an I.Q. higher than a salad bar to Christianity (or any other religion).
A sharp JW will say that Jesus is everyone's mediator, in a sense. Christ is the mediator of the " new conenant " ONLY for the 144,000. Now what?
Data-Dog... I like the way you think. Point/Counterpoint. If a Witness says that Jesus is everyone's mediator in a sense, but truly only mediator of the "new covenant of 144,000", then I guess there's a couple of angles we could take. First, I'd immediately refer back to 1 Tim 2:1-7. It straightforwardly says that Jesus is "mediator"... there's no "in a sense" to it. If Jesus is mediator in a sense, then Jehovah must be "one God" in a sense. Next, the context of those verses shows that his mediatorship is not limited to 144,000 but all mankind. How would you handle it?
I asked several JW’s including some elders at the beginning of my 5 year fade, “Who is your mediator?” They all 100% answered, “Jesus of course!” My wife who is still a “true believer” and pioneered almost 2 decades was also taken aback when I showed her the actual teaching.
After being baptized 40 years and having better than average study skills and good memory recall, I’m embarrassed to admit this teaching slipped by me. The 1986 book, Worldwide Security Under the “Prince of Peace” is still available on the 2013 WT Library. There it clearly says pg. 10 par. 16, “Likewise, the Greater Moses, Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all mankind. He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members.”
I felt foolish and shocked by this. Only realized it from comments made here over the years, and on other websites.
Great comments and observations on this thread. Thanks.
ugh. i just finished COC and now this!!! I'm looking on WT I online for references. It doesn't have link to select articles. I still saw enough to share with hubby about Christ being mediator for 144 k but that he is mediator for all our prayers. How can that be? Contradicts. I feel like I'm in a dingy in the middle of the ocean but at least I have a paddle.
