Awkward moment at the WT study today

by FadeToBlack 47 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  frankiespeakin

  Fade,

  When we got to paragraphs 10,11 with the reference to the box at the top of the page - Is your teaching up-to-date? The conductor asked for an explanation of what the current 'bible truth' was. For the first one, 'this generation (Matt 24:34) absolutely nobody raised their hand! My wife had to leave for the restroom at that point. Finally some brave trooper answered the question by reading verbatim a 2 sentence explanation of current WT 'understanding'. Quick shuffle to the next points.

  Seems like cognitive dissonance was holding up the commenting on this ones, I'm thinking this to be a doubt indicator, bad feelings about the answers offered in the box. Perhaps many in your congregation are reaching some type of tipping point in how much of this bull shit they can regurgitate comfortably and just swallow it again.
• 

  out4good3

  You are soooooo going to be asked to attend a meeting in the second school.
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  FadeToBlack

  OK. I might have to amend my last statement after having actually read the October 95 Wt article cited. Perhaps the only significant difference is when the judging takes place - after the great tribulation breaks out which is intitiated by the UN turning against Babylon the great. I will try to reread both explanations again -hope my head doesn't explode!
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  zed is dead

  That box might bite the GB in the butt. My mother came home and didn't catch the "overlapping generations" change the first time around. After seeing that box she is researching it becasue it makes no sense to her.

  zed
• 

  FadeToBlack

  Perhaps with regard to point # 2 (sheep and goats) someone could clear up the difference (if any) between separating and judging. It seems like in the 4/13 WT separating=judging. They occur at the same time. The 95 Wt seems to not use the word separating at all. Mostly judgment. So maybe, I am just out of touch. I must be holding the old view (pre 95) that the separating work had been going on since 1914 and the judgement would take place at the big A. No wonder I no longer have Jehovah' blessings. I am not keeping up with the chariot. I feel a gnashing of teeth coming on...
• 

  BluesBrother

  I have taken these cut and paste quotes.. Personally I cannot see an appreciable diffence between the two explanations -

  WT 1995 10/15 pp22/23

  25 This means, then, that Jesus’ ‘sitting down on his glorious throne’ for judgment, mentioned at Matthew 25:31, applies to the future point when this powerful King will sit down to pronounce and execute judgment on the nations. Yes, the judgment scene that involves Jesus at Matthew 25:31-33, 46 is comparable to the scene in Daniel chapter 7, where the reigning King, the Ancient of Days, sat down to carry out his role as Judge.

  26 Understanding the parable of the sheep and the goats in this way indicates that the rendering of judgment on the sheep and the goats is future. It will take place after “the tribulation” mentioned at Matthew 24:29, 30 breaks out and the Son of man ‘arrives in his glory.’ (Compare Mark 13:24-26.) Then, with the entire wicked system at its end, Jesus will hold court and render and execute judgment.—John 5:30; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.

  WT July 15 2013 "Tell Us When Will These Things Be?"

  12 Jesus’ prophecy about the last days reveals that he will for the very first time act as Judge of all nations after the destruction of false religion. As mentioned in paragraph 8, some of the events that will occur during that time are recorded at Matthew 24:30, 31. When you examine those verses, you will note that Jesus there foretells events that are similar to the ones he mentions in the parable of the sheep and the goats. For example, the Son of man comes with glory and with angels; all tribes and nations are gathered; those judged as sheep “lift [their] heads up” because “everlasting life” awaits them. * Those judged as goats “beat themselves in lamentation,” realizing that “everlasting cutting-off” awaits them.—Matt. 25:31-33, 46.

  13 So, then, what can we conclude? Jesus will judge people of all nations as sheep or goats when he comes during the great tribulation. Then, at Armageddon, the climax of the great tribulation, the goatlike ones will be ‘cut off’ forever. How does that understanding affect our view of our ministry? It helps us to see how important our preaching work is. Until the great tribulation begins, people still have time to change their thinking and start walking on the cramped road “leading off into life.” (Matt. 7:13, 14) To be sure, people may now display a sheeplike or a goatlike disposition. Nevertheless, we should remember that the final judgment of who are sheep and who are goats is during the great tribulation. Therefore, we have good reason for continuing to offer as many people as possible the opportunity to listen to and respond to the Kingdom message.
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  Oubliette

  FadeToBlack: As an example look at point #2 (Separating of the sheeps from the goats). Compare that with paragraph 11 in the July WT study article on page 6.

  What's different?

  The 4/15/2013 article asks this question:

  When does the separating of “the sheep from the goats” described at Matthew 25:32 take place? — The Watchtower, October 15, 1995, pages 21-23.

  The 7/15/2013 Study article says:

  Jesus will judge people of all nations as sheep or goats when he comes during the great tribulation. - w13 7/15, p. 6, para. 13.

  Thanks to BluesBrother for quoting the 10/15/95 WT!

  There does not appear to be a (significant) change to me.

  But this brings up an interesting point. If you became a JW recently, or like me do not have a WT Library CD, there is no way for you to look up any articles pre-2000 as the jw.org online library only goes back that far.

  Curiouser and curiouser ...
• 

  Wasanelder Once

  I looked at the magazine from yesterdays study and the references and the new July update, no difference, Don't wade into any JW's with this one its a pile of steaming poop. It has been wrongly identified by the person who started this thread. There are plenty of other thoughts that can be raised by this. Such as: The quote in the magazine says there was no FDS until the "presence" began in 1914. SO, is Russell of the FDS before 1914? Can't be. But was he after 1914? If he was afterwards, why did he continue to teach wrong things afterwards, such as 1874 as the presence start? Did Rutherford start the FDS? If so why did he say that the Holy Spirit no longer provided new understandings, angels did? Was he denying the source? How was that direction from the Holy Spirit? Why did he say in regards to the teaching of 1925 as the year for Armageddon, "I made and ass out of my self on that!" if it was a group of men acting as the FDS? And why does his name alone appear as author of the books published if it was a group of men?

  Lots to think about.