"Mentally Diseased" comment makes news

by freemindfade 36 Replies latest watchtower scandals

• 

  Driving Force

  
  

  Consider these watchtower comments:
  

  • Watchtower 2013 Apr 15 p.11
    "Strong hope enables us to resist apostates and their gangrenous "empty speeches."
  • Examining the Scriptures Daily 2011 Aug 18 p.83
    "Satan was the first creature to turn apostate. Modern-day apostates display characteristics similar to those of the Devil. Their mind may be poisoned by a critical attitude toward individuals in the congregations, Christian elders, or the Governing Body. Some apostates oppose the use of the divine name, Jehovah. They are not interested in learning about Jehovah or in serving him. Like their father, Satan, apostates target people of integrity. (John 8:44) No wonder servants of Jehovah avoid all contact with them!"
    
    
  • Watchtower 2004 Feb 15 p.28
    
  • "It would be a mistake to think that you need to listen to apostates or to read their writings to refute their arguments. Their twisted, poisonous reasoning can cause spiritual harm and can contaminate your faith like rapidly spreading gangrene. (2 Timothy 2:16, 17) Rather, imitate God's response to apostates. Job said of Jehovah: "Before him no apostate will come in." - Job 13:16."
    
    
  • Watchtower 2000 May 1 p.10
    "Some apostates are increasingly using various forms of mass communication, including the Internet, to spread false information about Jehovah's Witnesses."

  I find this one particularly interesting, since I started looking at these so called apostate sites, I fine very little false information, it is almost always true, so who is spreading false information?
  

  
  

  • Watchtower 1992 July 15 pp.12-13 Christ Hated Lawlessness-Do You?
    "The obligation to hate lawlessness also applies to all activity by apostates. Our attitude toward apostates should be that of David, who declared: "Do I not hate those who are intensely hating you "
    
    
  • Watchtower 1985 July 15 p.31
    "Such ones [apostates] willfully abandoning the Christian congregation thereby become part of the 'antichrist.' (1 John 2:18, 19)"

  I copied these quotes from:

  http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/quotes/apostates.php

  and there are many more.

  
  

  Saying that apostates are "mentally diseased" is just adding to all the crap they have said in the past.
  And clearly they are inciting active JWs to hate apostates.
  

  • Watchtower 2011 Jul 15 p.11
    Apostates do not care about us.

  On the contrary, we care very much about those stuck in the bOrg, we have family and friends there, that is why we do this.
  
  
• 

  Ruby456

  driving force, the law does not legislate against followers being given moral injunctions to avoid apostates even if they are couched in the above terms. There has to be an intention on the part of the Watchtower to stir a person to take some sort of threatening step in words or behavior towards another person. So long as the watchtower is saying to avoid apostates (or those who oppose you) they, imo, can't be touched by the law.

  edit: I would be very glad if you could me something different
• 

  Driving Force

  Ruby456. That is true what you say for the USA, correct me if that is not the case. But inciting hate against a group of people is against the law in some lands like Germany for instance, this is due to their past when considering the Nazi era. In the UK this inquiry about the "mentally diseased" has been ongoing for some time now, so there must be some serious considerations going in by the investigative group.
  
  
• 

  cantleave

  Angus Robertson, a former Witness "elder" from an undisclosed town in Hampshire, who was present at the meeting with police, told The Independent: "The way scripture is being used to bully people must be challenged.“If a religion was preaching that blacks or gays were mentally diseased there would understandable outrage."
  Bloody Hell!!! Did I really say that? How time flies
• 

  Ruby456

  driving force, what does the law in Germany say?

  
  
  
• 

  Gentledawn

  Hunsberger and Brown 1984, atran 2004

  That is incomplete information. Seriously, can you at least cite the name of the study or article that you're allegedly cherry-picking your info?

  Here's a study:
  "Who benefits from religion?"
  http://www.people.hbs.edu/mnorton/mochon%20norton%20ariely%202011.pdf

  That study cites "Hunsberger & Brown" in its references, a book/article titled "Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion". That lead to the next internet search, which turned up this:

  Chapter 12
  Religion and Mental Disorder
  Religion as a Hazard to Mental Health
  http://softdevlabs.com/personal/psych/disorder.html

  Research Box 12.7.
  Rigid Religiosity and Mental Health
  (Stifoss-Hansen, 1994)
  
  "Religious bodies possess rules and regulations that people can often interpret in ways ranging from an easy flexibility to a rigid absolutism. The latter has been defined in one major study as a "law-orientation." a In the present study, a scale of rigid-flexible religiosity was developed and administered to 56 volunteer hospitalized neurotic patients and a control group of 70 nonpatients. The first group scored significantly higher than the controls on the scale, demonstrating that a rigid religiosity is a correlate of, at least, severely neurotic thinking and behavior. The author is inclined to suggest a positive relationship between mental disturbance and an extrinsic religious orientation. "
  _____________________________________________
  a Strommen, Brekke, Underwager, and Johnson (1972).

  --------------
  

  That is one studys findings. It does not state that religion attracts people with mental illness, just that participating in rigid religiosity "demonstrating that a rigid religiosity is a correlate of, at least, severely neurotic thinking and behavior.".

  Nothing in that study supports your claim that higher number of religious recruits are already mentally ill ("diseased") before they join, or that "new" religions (don't Jehovah's Witnesses claim to be Christians?) automatically attracts high numbers of mentally "diseased" persons.

  - - -

  In the case of law (which was not talked about by me prior to this), it goes back to whether or not the clergy in that particular church are qualified to diagnose such a thing and if those were the actual reasons why the person left the church.

  Leaving the church is a human right. The watchtower cannot claim human rights for itself as an organizational whole, and then deny individuals their basic human rights by punishing those who leave.

  THE UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS
  

  http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/

  Article 18.
  • Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

  - - -
  

  In fact, the watchtower signed an agreement with a country, in order to carry on their preaching work:they would not disfellowship people who accepted blood transfusions. So what did watchtower do to punish people for violating their man-made rule? If the person accepted blood transfusions, they would be counted as disassociating themselves, which is the exact same thing as disfellowshipping.

  "Bulgaria, the Watchtower and Blood Transfusions"
  

  http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/bulgaria-blood-transfusions.php
  
• 

  R. Jerome Harris

  When the WTBTS used the expression "mentally diseased," is really saying that those who leave the organization have been "possessed by demons." The organization would never say "demon possessed" as it would definitely come across as too harsh. Saying persons are mentally diseased is much "softer."

  Many get DFd (shunned) or leave the organization by disassociation. The bottom line here is that persons need to wake up and say to themselves:

  I do not care what the WTBTS or any religious organization thinks of me or does to me. They really has no power over me. I should care only about the one who DOES have the power of eternal life and eternal death over me: The Most High God.

  They should say to themselves ...

  Why am I in fear of a religious organization? I should not be. I should fear God!

  They should say to themselves:

  I no longer give the WTBTS or any other religious organization to place THEIR labels upon me and I reject THEIR labeling of me. Who gave them that right? Certainly not God!

  They should say to themselves:

  I am not an apostate because the WTBTS says so and I am certainly not mentally diseased because the WTBTS says so. I care only about what my God (Father in heaven) and my Master (Christ Jesus) thinks of me.

  And lastly, they should say:

  I will never feel guilty, bad or insecure about no longer being associated with a religious organization. If my Lord NEVER condemned or shunned anyone, he will not shun or condemn me. The WTBTS has no power over me and I will not lose any sleep over them. I do not hate them because that would be wrong. But I am a concerned person. Concerned about the millions in captivity to an organization. I am now free as Christ wanted me to be and I have power from Christ, my Lord and insults and foul mis-labelings bounce off me and do not pierce. I will keep my senses and listen to my Lord and treat all people - good, bad, JWs, non-JWs - as my Master did: With kindness, love, tolerance, understanding and most importantly - forgiveness. This does not mean I agree with everything as my Master did not. By doing this all will know that I am his true disciple. (No fancy names required). (John 13:35)
• 

  Driving Force

  Ruby456

  This is clearly laid out in the "Strafgesetztbuch § 130 Volksverhetzung" (Criminal law book § 130 sedition) you can access this at http://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/130.html, however this is in German.

  Just to paraphrase some of it, not a translation:

  (1) Whoever disturbs the public peace in anyway ,
  1. to incite hate, violence or arbitrary action against a national, … religious … against any part of the population or against an individual due to their affiliation to a particular group or
  2. due to this, attacks the human dignity because of their affiliation to a particular group …..

  shall be punished by imprisonment from three months to five years.

  The text then goes on and expands on this.
  

  
  
• 

  Driving Force

  Sorry about the formatting in the above.
  
• 

  Driving Force

  If anybody is interested there is an interesting article on "Hate Speech":

  http://www.article19.org/pages/en/hate-speech-more.html

  The following should perhaps receive a special mention:

  • In a 2001 Joint Statement, the UN, OSCE and OAS Special Mandates on the right to freedom of expression set out a number of conditions which hate speech laws should respect:

  • No one should be penalised for statements which are true
  • No one should be penalised for the dissemination of hate speech unless it has been shown that they did so with the intention of inciting discrimination, hostility or violence
  • The right of journalists to decide how best to communicate information and ideas to the public should be respected, particularly when they are reporting on racism and intolerance
  • No one should be subject to prior censorship
  • Any imposition of sanctions by courts should be in strict conformity with the principle of proportionality.

  • These provide a good basis for assessing the legitimacy of any particular hate speech law.

  I think that declaring anybody "mentally diseased" and shunning them is "with the intention of inciting discrimination".
  Although this is not law in many lands as mentioned by Ruby456.