Daniel Chapter 7 - Commentary - NEW ARTICLE (page 2)

EdenOne

I'm closing in on an explanation to the statue. First I will write a commentary on Daniel 8. Expect a commentary on Daniel 2 to follow.

Eden

Separation of Powers

EdenOne,

Having read your commentary, I have one question, well, actually two.

Are you fluent in ancient Hebrew or Aramaic?

If not, are you fluent in ancient greek or greek used before the 1st century i.e. used in the translation of the Septuagint?

"He gave me this explanation: 'The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it.

Remember that the four animals are seen from the perspective of the "holy people", Israel. Although there are more empires on earth, the prophecy only concerns itself with those who interact significantly with the "saints of the Most Holy", the specially cleansed people of Yahweh, the Israelites.

The expression "on earth" and "whole earth" should not be cause for misleading. The aramaic term used "ara" is the equivalent to the hebrew "erets"; Among many uses (including soil, ground, the abode under the sky, the underworld), Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old Testament Words notes:

"[erets] , may be used geographically, i.e., to identify a territory: “And Haran died before his father Terah in the land of his nativity” (Gen. 11:28). , sometimes bears a political connotation and represents both a given political territory and the people who live there: “And there was no bread in all the land; for the famine was very sore, so that the land of Egypt and all the land of Canaan fainted by reason of the famine” (Gen. 47:13). Not only the “land” languished, but (and especially) the people suffered.Next, in several passages this noun has both geographical and political overtones and identifies the possession or inheritance of a tribe. This emphasis is in Num. 32:1: “Now the children of Reuben and the children of Gad had a very great multitude of cattle: and when they saw the land of Jazer, and the land of Gilead, that, behold, the place was a place for cattle....”

Therefore, since the special subjects of the wrath of the fourth beast are the Israelites, then the "earth" and "whole earth" are the land of Israel, or Palestine. The Seleucid empire, like a terrifying beast with iron teeth, would "devour the whole earth", or ravish the territory of Israel. The "iron teeth" are symbolic of a predatorial brute force, barbaric cruelty and unbreakable merciless.

Josephus, in Wars of the Jews, book 1, recounts that the armies of Antiochus IV Epiphanes made use of Elephants with towers on top. Daniel J. Harrington, author of the commentary on First and Secon Maccabees, wrote: "Antiochus gave Lysias half of his army and the elephants and ordered him to destroy the people of Judea and Jerusalem and to resettle the land with foreigners". What the Jews faced with the Seleucid empire was a devastation of higher magnitude than that caused by the Babylonians [who ravished Jerusalem and exiled the people] or the Persians [who, by Haman, plotted to exterminate the Jews in Persia but the plot was averted with the help of the King himself]; This time the threat was more terryfing, for the threat of genocide and erasure from the face of the earth was very real and was on the field of battle. Some authors claim that Antiochus IV Epiphanes slained and sold to slavery more Jews than Nabuchadnezzar II had done.

No wonder this "fourth beast" was portrayed as the most terrifying of all the beasts!

Eden

EdenOne

Separation of Powers

Are you fluent in ancient Hebrew or Aramaic?

If not, are you fluent in ancient greek or greek used before the 1st century i.e. used in the translation of the Septuagint?

I'm not a scholar, nor a specialist in linguistics. So, the answer is no / no. I rely on authors like Vine, Thayer or Strong to give me the sense of the meanings conveyed by the original words.

I'm sure your question has a purpose, so go ahead...

Eden

Separation of Powers

"I'm sure your question has a purpose, so go ahead..."

No purpose, simply a question or questions. I am always impressed by the scholastic endeavors of those that have left the organization. It is a testament to their desire to know the truth, if there is such a thing. I applaud your efforts and am impressed by your writing style. No agenda here.

EdenOne

No agenda here.

I apologize for presuming you had one.

Your observation is fair ...somehow when one finds out that the "Organization" is wrong, then it's as if we really really really want to make sure it's wrong before we leave - like determining if there is no redeeming quality left. I presume this has to do with the deeply engraved fear that there is no salvation outside the WTS Organization. One wants to make sure no such mistake is ever made again.

Eden

Separation of Powers

EdenOne,

I, too, have undertaken considerable scholarly endeavors, I think in an attempt to do the same. Many have tried to make sense of it all by exhaustively studying as many resources as possible, and yet, in the end, come up short. The Bible is an ancient book, with ancient overtones and symbology. The interpretation of its contents is subject to the whims and fancies of modern society, quite similar to the Constitution of the United States or United Kingdom. For this reason, I have struggled, struggled to displace myself from the act of interpreting the Scriptures so as to not bring in my own preconceived notions or ideas, so as to not lend myself to the position of a commentator for whom I hold a particular respect. Through it all I came to the realization that I would like to share with you. It may help you to come to grips with the "really, really, really want to make sure " aspect of your journey.

The early Christian church was defined by, not a oneness in doctrine, but in purpose.

Christ said, "You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me!" (John 5:39 New Living Translation)

SOP

Vidqun

Eden, Daniel refers to Israel as "the beautiful land," (= "land of the Decoration," NW, see Dan. 8:9; 11:16, 41, 45), not as "the whole earth."

Of all the nations of that time, Rome would utilize iron more than any before. Archaeologists call the period "the middle iron age." Rome made extensive use of iron whereas some of the older nations such as the Greek City states were still advancing from Bronze weapons. This is why they got beaten. The superiority of Roman weapons and tactics would subdue "all the inhabited earth."

This is what the Keil-Delitzsch Commentary had to say:

Dan. 7:23. Fourth kingdom. Daniel receives the following explanation regarding the fourth beast. It signifies a fourth kingdom, which would be different from all the preceding, and would eat up and destroy the whole earth. “The whole earth is the ο?κουμ?νη ,” the expression, without any hyperbole, for the whole circle of historical nations.

These four kingdoms are the Babylonian, the Medo-Persian, the Macedo-Grecian, and the Roman. This was an opinion held by Josephus (Ant. 10.10.4 §209). He viewed the third layer coming from the west, identifying it with Greece, so that the fourth should be Rome. This was also the conclusion reached by Martin Luther: “In this interpretation and opinion,” he observes, “all the world are agreed, and history and fact abundantly establish it.” This would be the case, until the end of the nineteenth century.

The relation of the world-kingdoms to the kingdom and people of God, represented by the gradation of the metals, correspond only to the Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Macedo-Grecian, and Roman world-kingdoms, but not to the Babylonian, Median, and Persian. First the Roman kingdom spread its power and dominion over the whole ο?κουμ?νη , over all the historical nations of antiquity in Europe, Africa, and Asia. “There is” (says Herodian, ii. 11. 7) “no part of the earth and no region of the heavens whither the Romans have not extended their dominion.”

Still more the prophecy of Daniel reminds us of the comparison of the Roman world-kingdom with the ear lier world-kingdoms, the Assyri o-Baylonian, the Persian, and the Macedo- Grecian, in Dionys. Halicar., when in the proaem. 9 he says: “There are the most famous kingdoms down to our time, and this their duration and power. But the kingdom of the Romans ruled through all the regions of the earth which are accessible, inhabited by men; it ruled also over the whole sea, and it alone and first made the eas t and the west its boundaries.”

AwareBeing

Hi EdonOne,

Since your thread is about the Daniel image;

I should like wise mention that my site also highlights End Times and Survival.

I've filled out a survey for other friends here, and I'll fill yours out too.

When your in my site, you can comment anywhere;

with general questions at the bottom of the home page.

EdenOne

AB

The thread isn't about the Daniel image ...rather is about Daniel Chapter 7. Some here believe that there's a direct relationship with the statue of Daniel 2. Since I haven't got my head around the subject, I won't comment on it for now.

On my site there's a section to comment on the articles. But it's not on the same page as the articles themselves. And I admit, I take some time to create the entry for each article. My bad. I should create it the moment I publish an article. I gotta get more efficient :P

Eden

Daniel Chapter 7 - Commentary - NEW ARTICLE

Share this