You are all correct. Everything only has the value that you assign it in the model of reality that exists in your mind. Somehow this works for all seven billion people on planet Earth...
Atheism and the delusion of meaning
by Laika 69 Replies latest jw friends
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Laika
Metatron
I agree with your post.
ADCMS,
I never said that atheists don't assign value to other people! You are attacking a strawman.
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gingerbread
Atheism is the belief that the existence of a supernatural deity in unprovable.
Nihilism is the belief that traditional systems of values and morals are of no consequence to the individual.
Existentialism is the belief that the universe/world is unexplainable and the individual assumes responsibility for his free will.
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AndDontCallMeShirley
I never said that atheists don't assign value to other people! You are attacking a strawman.
Really? I didn't get that impression:
a self created, impersonal universe there cannot be any meaning.
You are just a series of random events, you are no more valuable than a dog turd. Just as King Solomon said it is all in vain, totally meaningless.
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Fernando
Without (the gospel or message of ultimate, and interim imputed) liberation, reconciliation, restoration, and eternal life (referred to around 46 times in scripture), this mundane and troubled existence (amidst evil) would indeed seem to be meaningless.
(What was God thinking when he imputed Jesus' holiness to us, as fallen sinners? Does that make us sinner-saints? Are we now also considered the "holy ones" of scripture? Is that why it is called the “Good News” about God’s grace or unmerited favour? Does this make the "ruling religious clergy class" redundant, angry and fearful?)
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OnTheWayOut
If you want to believe that life has no meaning whatsoever, that is a fine philosophy for you alone.
But don't insist that it is correct for all life, seeing that the universe will end in billions of years.
Plants and animals continue to exist despite their not believing in God. Somehow, they make their own "purpose" out of life despite the philosophy that it all doesn't matter in the big picture.
I am way more comforted to think that life (and existence for that matter) doesn't have some imposed purpose from an unseen "creator" rather than thinking that the creator is a real asshole that lets innocent children suffer with birth defects and allows the creation to suffer horribly via various diseases that the creator does nothing about.
If I find some self-imposed meaning in my life, great for me. I can laugh and smile and cry and have joy and sorrow and do my best in this universe to make my way for the brief moment I am here.
The alternative in your philosophy is to end your own life right now because it will all be gone in billions of years anyway. But instead, you have made up a fake alternative: pretend you will be around for eternity no matter what because of some made up God that will give you eternity if you kiss his pretend ass for the brief moment you have of life. Seems like, in my philosophy, you are wasting your brief moment.
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pseudoxristos
I wish I had time to properly discuss this, but in a nutshell, you are correct. There is no real meaning, no right or wrong, no good or evil.
On the path to Atheism this was probably the concept that I struggled with the most.
But, in the end I was raised and live in a society that places value on these concepts and imagine that these concepts are deeply ingrained in most Atheist,as they are in me.
So, when you say that from an Atheist point of view, people are worth no more than a dog turd, don't be surprised if you get a reaction.
Hopefully, I will have time to comment later.
psuedo
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Terry
But now the atheists have to start their self-deception. They try to give the impersonal meaningless universe meaning. Just listen to them. In place of God, love, purpose they have these existential concepts of the survival of the herd, the advancement of mankind, the enjoyment of the beauty of nature etc... So what's wrong with this? Well it's dishonest.
What is honest about arbitrarily attaching an invisible Father in the sky to our brain stem in order to rescue us from facing eternity? Accepting what IS for what it is seems more honest.
Beauty in nature is a choice and not a fact. Ugly and toxic things exist but we don't dream them away--we do something about them. This world and this life are in our hands a brief time. If we aren't part of the solution we end up being part of the problem.
The gaping flaw in fundamentalist thinking is in placing all values on the NEXT life while neglecting this world as to improving it. Our lovely JW friends don't bother making anything better for this reason.
They are mere spectators when they could be humanitarians. 7 million people in that organization working 10 hours per month on a world-improvement project would leave an unbelievably worthwhile legacy for mankind.
Instead, they waste it on silly book and magazines and wishful thinking. Quite a contrast and a sad one at that!
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AndDontCallMeShirley
The gaping flaw in fundamentalist thinking is in placing all values on the NEXT life while neglecting this world as to improving it. Our lovely JW friends don't bother making anything better for this reason.
Terry, I was thinking this very thing before I got to this sentence in your post.
I know many JWs who are wasteful and live with a sense of entitlement, and have little regard for this life or the earth, simply because god will fix it all in "the Paradise" to come.
Their myopic focus on the next life makes them disassociate from doing much, if anything, with this life. Why try to fix a world that god is going to destroy anyway?
The atheist's view is that we only go around once, so make the most of this life as best you can.