If they are reinstated they are still anointed.
There is no 'runner up prize' of living on earth.
George
Can Anointed Members Be Disfellowshiped?
by Cold Steel 22 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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bigmac
i know of one annointed person who writes regularly on here. the person no longer claims to be a jw.
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Vidiot
Anybody who pisses off the heirarchy can be DFed.
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blondie
*** w76 3/1 pp. 158-159 Questions From Readers ***
Can an anointed Christian who is disfellowshiped later be reinstated and still have the heavenly hope?
Yes, that is possible. Of course, in each case Jehovah God is the one to determine whether he will extend forgiveness.
The fact that this is possible is borne out by what we read in the apostle Paul’s letters to the Corinthian congregation. He wrote to Christians who had been anointed by holy spirit and given the hope of heavenly life. Paul addressed them as “you who have been sanctified in union with Christ Jesus, called to be holy ones.”—1 Cor. 1:2; 15:49.
One of these anointed Christians began to practice fornication. When he evidently did not repent and stop his immorality, Paul directed the congregation to disfellowship him. (1 Cor. 5:1-5, 9-13) However, it seems that this disfellowshiped person thereafter did sincerely repent. He is understood to be the person whom Paul was referring to in his second letter when he advised the Corinthians to forgive and accept back the former sinner.—2 Cor. 2:6-11; 7:8-13.
When that man was reinstated into the congregation, what was his hope? Had he lost the heavenly calling, and had his hope now been changed to everlasting life on earth? No, for the earthly hope is not, as it were, a second-chance prospect. Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham and multitudes of other persons of outstanding faith had the hope of eternal life on earth, but this was not because they failed to measure up to the heavenly calling. They simply did not live in the time when the heavenly calling was in process according to Jehovah’s will. (Heb. 10:19, 20) Comparable faith and integrity are required of all who will gain everlasting life, whether in heaven or on a paradise earth. A Christian who is anointed with holy spirit and made a joint heir with Christ must prove faithful to that calling if he is to receive eternal life at all.—Rev. 2:10, 11; Phil. 3:8-14; Rom. 8:14-17.
This, though, does not mean that while they are on earth anointed Christians never sin. In the flesh, they are still imperfect and consequently they sin, as do all humans, and may even commit gross sin. The Christian disciple and Bible writer James, certainly an anointed Christian, wrote: “For we all stumble many times. If anyone does not stumble in word, this one is a perfect man.” (Jas. 3:2; 2:5) It appears that such unintentional sin resulting from imperfection is what the apostle John meant by “sin that does not incur death.” (1 John 5:16) God can forgive such sins. John said: “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous so as to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”—1 John 1:9.
But repentance is necessary. If an anointed Christian today practiced gross sin and did not manifest repentance, the congregation, out of obedience to God’s counsel, would have to disfellowship him. If he subsequently repented, though, he could be forgiven and reinstated, as was the man in Corinth.
God does not, however, forgive all sin. According to what Jesus said in Mark 3:28, 29, those who willfully and knowingly blaspheme God’s spirit can never be forgiven. And Paul wrote: “If we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment.” (Heb. 10:26, 27) Such unforgivable sin is evidently what John referred to as “sin that does incur death.”—1 John 5:16.
If an anointed Christian sinned against the spirit, practicing willful sin without repentance and ‘impaling the Son of God afresh,’ God would completely and forever reject him. (Heb. 6:4-6) Not being repentant, he would not be reinstated. Jehovah would have to select and anoint another Christian as a replacement so that the full number of 144,000 would be kept complete. It might be compared to heaven’s choice of Matthias to replace unfaithful Judas Iscariot so that there would be twelve faithful apostles of Jesus on which to build the Christian congregation.—Acts 1:23-26; Eph. 2:20.
Is this to say that if an anointed Christian is disfellowshiped, Jehovah then and there selects a replacement? No human can say that, for we cannot know if the disfellowshiped individual has committed the unforgivable sin. Jehovah knows, and so the matter can be left in his hands. Just how and when he chooses to select a replacement is for him to decide. He did not give a detailed discussion of the matter in the Bible. So rather than speculate on what He will do or try to guess whether a disfellowshiped person is beyond the possibility of repentance, we can leave the matter up to Jehovah, the righteous Judge.—Heb. 12:23.
If a congregation has had to disfellowship a person but he later repents and is reinstated, we can rejoice over Jehovah’s mercy and forgiveness. (Luke 15:7) That is so whether the person professed the heavenly hope and continues to do so or had and continues to have hope of everlasting life on earth. All of us should take to heart the lessons learned from this—our own need to fight constantly against imperfection and sin, the importance of seeking forgiveness when we do sin and the necessity of enduring to the end so as to be saved.—Matt. 10:22.
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return of parakeet
Cold Steel: D on't people who think they're anointed have to tell the elders of their status?
No. They announce their status by eating crackers and sipping wine at the funnest holiday the dubs have, the annual "Memorial" of the Last Supper.
I don't know how people announce these things to the elders, nor what happens if the elders don't agree.
If a dub claims to be anointed, the elders cannot agree or disagree. It's assumed the dub is what he says he is.
Which is more prestigious? Being an elder or being a member of the heavenly class?
If the dub is male but not an elder, the elder still has more status. If the dub is male AND an elder, he's golden. If the dub is female, there is almost no pestige. In fact, she is more closely scrutinized than the other dubs in her KH to make sure she's behaving appropriately ala dub standards.
Are there cases where someone declares and then is badmouthed by members in the congregation?
Not in my KH. Although one of the "anointed" sisters once invited me to her house for drinks and proceeded to viciously gossip about everybody else in the congregation. Quite an eye-opener about the sanctity of the "anointed class."
I understand declaring when you're not really a member of that class is a serious sin. If you do everything else right, but are wrong about that, would Jehovah forgive you? Or would you forfeit your resurrection?
If the dub falsely claims to be anointed, dub doctrine dictates that the dub will have an eternal dirt nap when he/she dies. But the means by which a dub becomes "anointed" are so nebulous, there's almost no reason to falsify their claim. If the dub feels especially content after a large dinner, that could be taken as a sign by the dub.
Finally, after becoming a Jehovah's Witness, how long does it take before you're informed that you are of that class? Are we talking days, months, or years?
Assuming Jehovah does the informing by means only dubs could invent, it could be any time after baptism. Underage baptized dubs might be questioned about their claim; but, otherwise, all dubs are potential "anointees."
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abbasgreta
Brilliant, brilliant Blondie.(hope your'e feeling better.) Para: "God does not. however forgive all sin." The wt have wilfully and knowingly added or deleted pronunciation marks, words, passages and whole paragraphs from the Bible to support their heretical doctrines. (Holy Spirit "breathed"/inspired). This is the one fact that I must admit enrages me - the real root of all the other evils. How CAN they EVER justify it.
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Cold Steel
If one were a true believing member of the Society, wouldn't having the "heavenly hope" be more desirable than being an elder who will end up, as someone said above, petting animals and rolling in the grass? Is one who is anointed more apt to be named an elder in a KH (if he's believed)?
When Paul said he knew a man who was "caught up" to the third heaven, was this a person who had died or just been taken up? He added, "whether in the body or out, I know not." If man has no spirit, are we to understand that anointed members do have spirits?
If the WTS has made it "abundantly clear" that the number of Anointed Ones was pretty much used up by the 1930s, that would present a problem. It also would presuppose that all those claiming to be anointed back then were and that all those claiming to now, by and large aren't. Isn't it just as likely that those who thought they were anointed anciently, or in the 20s and 30s, are just as apt to be wrong as those now?
The fascinating thing about the doctrine is why two classes are needed. Are only those born after Christ have this heavenly hope?
Years ago I recall having a discussion with a Jehovah's Witness missionary. He said, that because he who is "least in the Kingdom of Heaven" is greater than "he" (meaning John the Baptist), that this meant that John would not be of the anointed class. This seemed odd because Jesus seemed quite fond of John, and John died a martyr's death. And despite both classes enjoying God's good graces, let's not pretend that those who gain Heaven get the better end of the stick. They will be able to live in God's presence as beings of immeasurable glory and power. They will tanscend space and time and probably have the power to assume a physical body so they can visit with friends and family on Earth. They'll also be able to view God's creations first hand...black holes and giant suns, pulsars and ice planets...perhaps even other planets with life on them. The Universe, and perhaps others, will be their personal playgrounds. But on Earth? Waterfalls, lush jungles, tropical seas with white sand beaches stretching for miles. There might be base jumping from mountains ten miles tall and swimming with dolphins. All to enjoy for trillions upon trillions of years. And each day you get up, the sun will by shining and the sky will be blue. Nothing will ever change. And even if you can explore the galaxy, you'll still need a ship.
So you may be an elder today, but tomorrow you'll be organizing family reunions and recreational outings.
That's why I'm fascinated that people would actually want to be part of the great crowd.
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NeverKnew
How do I ask this... (I think I'm about to look like an idiot)
So, if a person partakes, is salvation a hit/miss thing? Like, if they shouldn't have, do they then lose salvation in its entirety? or, would they get demoted to the Earthly Paradise on Judgement Day?
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Cold Steel
If you're received no instruction from Jehovah that you have the heavenly hope, you don't.
If you think you do but you don't, you're not condemned; you're simply wrong.
If you do it to curry favor with your congregation, you have sinned a great sin, but still forgivable.
HOW DOES ONE COMMIT THE SIN AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT? AND IS THERE A SIN SO HORRIBLE THAT IT SEALS YOU UP AGAINST LIFE?
I don't know how that works. It would have to be a sin that no matter how much one repented of, the church would have to say, "Sorry, Charley, it ain't happenin'. You ain't comin' back. Your destruction is set and your fate sealed!
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DeWandelaar
You can never switch places... some even thought that if they lost heavenly hope they would go to earth instead (now that would be cool!)
However... the funny part is that it doesn't really matter because the teaching of the WT$ is bullocks... so also the annointed vs other sheep thing.
Biblically speaking it is questionable that there are even anointed people on earth now... it is also questionable if we should partake at all... I think the hope to be kings with Christ has already been given in his time... the only thing we are waiting for now is the gathering of the weats and the weed by the Angels who do the harvesting. It makes a lot more sense then the teachings of the WT$