Where are the Forum Policies/Guidelines... and more

by Marvin Shilmer 32 Replies latest forum tech-support

• 

  still thinking

  LOL Marvin... I think many people only notice them when they are pointed out.

  And off topic comments are often a grey area to me too. Because sometimes to fully explore a topic, I believe sometimes you need to wander off topic a bit. Well...at a glance, what appears to be off topic.

  Providing the thread comes back on topic again all is not lost. And the wee journey could have been quite enlightening (and often has been to me) in the bigger scheme of things. Not always...but sometimes.

  Yes...I often derail my own threads...LOL It's how my mind works. I'm a derailer...
• 

  iCeltic

  I do think it makes sense not to go off topic but having said that, it seems sometimes like topic after topic goes of in all sorts of directions but only certain ones are kinda told off for it, it's generally the slightly more tense threads that get that kind of attention. Maybe it's just me.
• 

  still thinking

  I think it is only natural progression for a topic to include surrounding issues. I suppose once a thread degenerates into a slagging match with no sign of any topic at all...it is a clear indication the comments are 'off topic' and just poking each other with sticks.
• 

  Marvin Shilmer

  -

  “… off topic comments are often a grey area to me too.”

  still thinking,

  I agree with Simon that it’s difficult to provide a precise description of off-topic.

  The thing I’ve bumped into is that something that appears on-topic to one appears to be off-topic to another. Hence it’s a good idea to flesh out the topic a bit in order to avoid misunderstanding between equally honest individuals, all of which want to abide by the rules.

  Simon’s comment above that off-topic is something that whether blatant or subtle it nevertheless diverts or disrupts things (by “things” I understand the subject matter of the discussion) offers some help, but it also adds to the dilemma.

  If, for example, the discussion is of blood transfusion medicine and someone asks “Aren’t you paying transfusion services to administer product from blood?” and a participants responds saying “I'm not going to debate absurd statements with you” is it off-topic to point out that to avoid the absurd they should answer the precise question asked rather than avoiding it?

  In my mind pointing out a failure of reasoning (in the above case, non-responsiveness) within the discussion is integral to furthering the discussion to a productive end, and productive results should always be sought in discussion of substantive issues. This is, to me, always on topic

  If pointing out non-responsiveness is off-topic then I’m dumbfounded. So I’m sure doing this is not considered off-topic. Hence this thread of discussion is to flesh out this a bit more in order to have a better understanding of what is on-topic and/or off-topic, and in particular to find better understanding of if and/or when pointing out non-responsive replies is considered off-topic.

  Marvin Shilmer
• 

  cha ching

  Dear Marvin,

  Are you an English teacher?
• 

  Marvin Shilmer

  -

  “I think it is only natural progression for a topic to include surrounding issues.”

  still thinking,

  I agree. Discussions often include propositions taking the form of a logical argument. Discussions might also include participants exploring various ideas either underpinning or refuting a certain perspective, or both. This necessitates a measure of digression from the main subject to sub-subjects.

  When the discussion is of logical arguments this can become more tedious because arguments have to be logical in form in order to be sound; hence examining the form of argument becomes a substantive point of discussion. Those who do not understand the mechanics of this could easily misunderstand this as off-topic when in fact it’s precisely on-topic.

  Once an argument is shown (or acceded) to be logical in form then each of its premises require proving in order for the argument's logical conclusion to be sound. Premises used within a logical argument can direct evidence (e.g., an observed fact) or they could be conclusions of logical arguments. If a premise used in one argument is the conclusion of a previous logical argument then that previous logical argument becomes an integral part of the current discussion. The depths of this discussion could become enormous. Again, this is something that could easily be misread as off-topic when in fact it’s precisely on-topic.

  Hence saying a discussion naturally has a progression that includes surrounding issues is true, and I’d say is often an understatement.

  “I suppose once a thread degenerates into a slagging match with no sign of any topic at all...it is a clear indication the comments are 'off topic' and just poking each other with sticks.”

  The most telling aspect of someone who’s not participating in good-faith is when he or she fails to answer questions asked for precisely what those questions ask. When this starts to occur, in my experience the participant either holds a strong unrelenting personal bias that recognizes no reason or else they fear being refuted. I don’t understand either of these. We should all want to learn what is or is not sound, even if it means we happen to be wrong about something. Being wrong is something we all experience and there’s no shame in it.

  In my mind it’s the lack of good faith participation that is the ultimate degeneration of a discussion.

  Marvin Shilmer

  ___________________

  PS for cha ching: No, I am not an English teacher.
• 

  Simon

  Yes, not to be confused with the natural evolution of a topic (the Trayvon Martin one being a good case in point - the original question was answered and then other things were discussed).

  If people show up posting "wibble" or "kiss the monkey" though ...

  Sometimes it's mindless fun (emphasis on mindless). Other times it's done intentionally to shut down a discussion if someone doesn't like it. Either way it's annoying and ruins the normal function of a forum which is why it's not tolerated.
• 

  Marvin Shilmer

  -

  “If people show up posting "wibble" or "kiss the monkey" though ...

  “Sometimes it's mindless fun (emphasis on mindless). Other times it's done intentionally to shut down a discussion if someone doesn't like it. Either way it's annoying and ruins the normal function of a forum which is why it's not tolerated.”

  Simon,

  I confess that I have no idea what you mean above. What does it mean to post "wibble" or "kiss the monkey"?

  If a poster is addressing original content and/or how participants have responded to questions or statements of the original content, then why should anyone be annoyed by this? How does this ruin the normal function of the forum? Presuming a subject is not deleted then what is left to do but engage the subject and address its substance and participants’ responses and/or non-responses?

  Marvin Shilmer

  _______________

  PS: I looked up "wibble". Apparently it refers to meaningless content. I agree meaningless content is off-topic.
• 

  Simon

  While I've been clearing up the forum I've come across endless topics that were great discussions and then certain people appeared on them, posted nonsense and took them over. End of dicusssion and page after page of endless, mindless drivel. Always the same people.

  I've been clearing up stuff like that for the past week so you can imagine how impatient I am when people suggest 'everything' has value or people who do that should be allowed to continue ("stopping them is mean, Simon is evil" etc ...). It's precisely because topics have value and should be preserved that I do it and because people should be allowed to enjoy the discussions they want.

  I agree, good topics that are on the subject will typically meander a little, sometimes a lot but you can tell when the intention is to discuss the subject or not.
• 

  cha ching

  Thx Marvin,

  but... my curiosity is up.... what sort of profession are you in? or if not profession, what is your background?

  Your sentences and paragraphs are so... detailed, and deep...

  Also, are you from England? (if you don't mind me asking)

  thx, cha ching