A Lion is a Lion. A Bear, a Bear........

by Night Owl 14 Replies latest jw friends

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  Night Owl

  A lion is a lion, a bear is a bear. A fox is a fox, a deer is a deer. That is what they are, and they behave as what they are. That is to be expected.

  The tendency of man is towards satisfying his fleshly desires.

  Now, I do expect someone who believes in God to be going to church, preaching to others, condemning others for their beliefs, praying in public and in private, protesting at "gay pride" events and the like. I also expect a "holier than art thou" attitude in addition to a feeling of self-righteousness. But, it is to be expected.

  All of these things could appear to be hypocritical if that same person, whether in public, or in private, or both, was a hedonist, Monday thru Saturday. We can speculate as to why that person even goes to church, other than just applying the label "hypocrite".

  Maybe they are relieving their guilty conscience. They may feel that if they just keep going to church, the pull of the flesh will decrease in intensity, or go away all together. So somehow, someway, religion serves as a restraint for them, even though it may not appear to be so at face value.

  At some level, this person believes there is a God, otherwise they wouldn't bother with any of it. They would cast off all restraint.

  Now, the atheist on the other hand, answers to no one. Not to God, not to society, but only to himself. There "is" while he is alive, and there "is not" when he is dead. I would never expect anyone who truly believes this to be seen in any church.

  So then, the atheist who is not satisfying, or at least trying to satisfy every fleshly and/or animalistic desire that comes up into the heart, does not really believe there is no God, for the flesh is calling 24 hours a day for indulgence. That is the tendency of man. He leans so far to the flesh, he actually should tip over without having any restraint.

  So the believer demonstrates by their life that there is someone, or something that he must answer to, and that is a restraint for him in some capacity. Even if it does not appear to be so on the surface.

  So, too, the atheist should demonstrate by their life that they have cast off all restaint, for they have none, and live for the flesh and for the satisfying of their animalistic desires, which are common to all humans. It should be expected of the true atheist.

  NightOwl
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  Satanus

  Umm, was there a question about any of this?

  S
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  EntirelyPossible

  So then, the atheist who is not satisfying, or at least trying to satisfy every fleshly and/or animalistic desire that comes up into the heart, does not really believe there is no God, for the flesh is calling 24 hours a day for indulgence.

  That sentence doesn't make sense. Are you saying that unless someone is completely indulging every desire they have then they MUST beleive in God? Maybe 1) they aren't awake 24 hours per day and/or 2) they don't want to be Fatty McFatterson like chicken fried donut eating southern baptists.

  Plus, as an atheist, I ate a salad, some Thai food and a yogurt, went on a walk and 2 bike rides. I also made the comment that God could go f*ck himself and I had relations with a woman to whom I am not married.

  It was a good day. YMMV.
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  JonathanH

  Your syllogism is flawed, and it shows both prejudice as well as cultural conditioning. It is incorrect to assume a human being wants nothing more than to satisfy ever base fleshly desire. Also this argument runs into the problem that it asserts that the one making the accusation would love to rape and steal but doesn't because of god. It can be most easily dismantled by asking "NightOwl, do you want to rape other people? Would you go and rape somebody if you didn't believe in god? I don't believe in god and I'm not raping anyone, so you need to seek clinical help if you want to rape somebody but don't out of fear/love of some invisible father figure."

  I am an athiest and yet I do not rob, steal, rape, connive, gorge on food and wine, ect. Why? I assure you it is not because I "secretly" think there is a god. The answer (and this may be mind blowing to certain religious people) is that I want something other than sex and food.

  It is a distinct branch of religious philosophy (largely from the abrahamic faiths) that man wants nothing more than hedonistic self satisfaction and that god is the only thing restraining him. This assumption is incorrect. The realistic view of humans is that there is a complex hierachy of desires instilled and created by a combination of societal, cultural and biological factors. Sure I want sex, I also do not want to cause harm to another human being, I do not want to be ostracized by society, I don't want to have my freedom removed. If having sex requires me to harm another person (rape), be seen as a sex offender and go to prison, then those other desires trump the desire for sex. Personally I want to see my community thrive, my friends be happy, and humanity flourish. I do like food, sex, and other "hedonistic" pleasures, but in a hierachy of desires they fall far below my other desires.

  So yeah, you know what? I do exactly what I want, and I don't answer to anyone. Luckily for all of you, society has raised me to want more than narcisstic self satisfaction. Art, literature, philosophy, science, they have all taught me that there is far more to life than fucking til I'm dead. Maybe you don't see that, and you just want to die a millionaire rapist and god is the only thing stopping you, but I want more for both myself, society and humanity.
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  prologos

  right.
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  Tiktaalik

  >>>... for the flesh is calling 24 hours a day for indulgence.

  It sounds like you have got some serious issues Night Owl. You must have a miserable existence if your "flesh" is doing this to you.

  Don't fall into the trap of judging others by your own miserable standards.

  Also, probably better to refrain from raising topics you obviously have no idea about.

  It just makes you look very silly.
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  Bugbear

  Now, the atheist on the other hand, answers to no one...

  Now, these words are a grave presumtion. Most atheists I know have very high "humanistic" standards. Meaning that they love human beeings. In fact some socialogist have made essays and large investigation, among people both in the category "religios and or atheistic/agnostic". Facts says that the majority of prisoners have a believe in a higher "power" a creator, a god. While People with Higher education very often (in fact a waste majority) does not belivie in any god. Most terrorists, do their terror raids, and are willing to die, becouse some religios leader, have given them the idea that they will go to heaven and could have sex with numbers of virgins. It seems to me that those who claims to be church leaders, priest, GB, Popes, mullas a.s.f. doeas this mostly for the economical benefits, and to be highest on the social hierachy.

  An atheist on the other hand, if he is active, wants to help people se things clear, and reduce the numbers of religios supersticions, that hurt people.

  Bugbear is a Bugbear is a Bugbear
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  cofty

  Is this the dumbest post in the hisotory of JWN? It has to be a contender.

  the flesh is calling 24 hours a day for indulgence. That is the tendency of man. He leans so far to the flesh, he actually should tip over without having any restraint.

  Speak for yourself. You have some very serious issues. I don't think you are safe to be let out of the house without supervision.
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  2+2=5

  Is this the dumbest post in the hisotory of JWN? It has to be a contender.

  It has my vote.
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  punkofnice

  A lion is a lion, a bear is a bear. A fox is a fox, a deer is a deer.

  ...and a flawed argument is a flawed argument.