'Lamp' book by Ray Franz??? (page 2)

AgentSmith

It does seem to be a cobbled together piece of fiction. Ray is getting a raw deal here, and its not fair.

We had a period where a few people (well, one person with multiple accounts) had decided that Ray Franz was satan and single-handely responsible for all the abuse policies (and therefore indirectly, the abuse) withint the WTS and made post after post with silly claims to that effect.

They were an obsessive nutter who harrassed anyone who didn't agree with them and silentlambs had a similar 'if you are not 100% with us then you're the enemy' mindset. Not a surprise they combined and this dumb character assasination is the result - silentlambs got pissed because Ray wouldn't support them so they retaliated.

The guy left like 40 years ago and the issue is with the ORGANISATION - no policies or beliefs are the work of one single person.

Simon

Yes, the 1975 "prophecies" was Fred Franz ... their "seer"

Phizzy

The JW/WT "religion" was founded on lies, and is maintained by lies.

I know for certain that one such similar rumour was started by a member of the Writing Committee some years after Ray had left, it was told me by the rumour-monger's sibling.

The thing is that the way it was put was the usual mind-control way, if you had called the guy on his actual words they may not have been too far from the truth, but they were spun immediately by his sibling, and again and again as it was repeated to other gullible JW's.

JW's would not recognise Truth if it crept up and bit them on the arse.

Newly Enlightened

Simon and the others are correct. It was whackadoodle Freddy Franz that was the 1975 prophet. And he based it on the assumption that Oct of that year was the marker of 6,000 years of mans existance. You can also reason the child abuse policies out also. The president would have the final say on that policy no matter who came up with the idea. I am not saying Ray Franz is the one, I'm just saying that the president would be responsible no matter what. Next, they'll be blaming him for all their idiotic things printed, like their WT 1972 1/1 pg 31-32 Questions from readers:

Questions From Readers ?

Homosexuality is definitely condemned in the Bible as something that will prevent individuals from gaining God’s approval. (1 Cor. 6:9, 10) However, whether an innocent mate would Scripturally be able to remarry after procuring a legal divorce from a mate guilty of homosexual acts must be determined on the basis of what the Bible says respecting divorce and remarriage.

In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus Christ said: “Everyone divorcing his wife, except on account of fornication, makes her a subject for adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.” (Matt. 5:32) On a later occasion he told the Pharisees: “Whoever divorces his wife, except on the ground of fornication, and marries another commits adultery.”—Matt. 19:9.

Thus “fornication” is seen to be the only ground for divorce that frees the innocent mate to remarry.

The Greek word for fornication is porneía. It can refer to illicit sexual relations between either married or unmarried persons. The ancient Greeks, in rare instances, may have understood this term to denote acts other than illicit sexual intercourse between a man and a woman. But the sense in which Jesus used the word porneía at Matthew 5:32 and 19:9 must be ascertained from the context.

It should be noted that in Matthew chapters 5 and 19 “fornication” is used in the restricted sense of marital unfaithfulness, or illicit relations with another person not one’s marriage mate. Just before bringing up the matter of divorce in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus Christ pointed out that “everyone [married] that keeps on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” (Matt. 5:28) Consequently, when he afterward alluded to a woman’s committing fornication, his listeners would have understood this in its relative sense, namely, as signifying a married woman’s prostitution or adultery.

The context of Matthew chapter 19 confirms this conclusion. On the basis of the Hebrew Scriptures, Jesus pointed out that a man and his wife became “one flesh,” and then added: “What God has yoked together let no man put apart.” (Matt. 19:5, 6) Now, in homosexual acts the sex organs are used in an unnatural way, in a way for which they were never purposed. Two persons of the same sex are not complements of each other, as Adam and Eve were. They could never become “one flesh” in order to procreate. It might be added, in the case of human copulation with a beast, two different kinds of flesh are involved. Wrote the apostle Paul: “Not all flesh is the same flesh, but there is one of mankind, and there is another flesh of cattle, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish.”—1 Cor. 15:39.

While both homosexuality and bestiality are disgusting perversions, in the case of neither one is the marriage tie broken. It is broken only by acts that make an individual “one flesh” with a person of the opposite sex other than his or her legal marriage mate.

Invetigator74

The Lamp book that I remember from the 60's was a yellow book, thin but a little taller than most of their books. It was the book with the 80 questions you went through before baptism. It was basically an early version of the 'organization' book. I am pretty sure it did not address any dates as described in the original post. dropoffyourkeylee

I agree. I had to study the 80 or so question before my baptism in July 1972 from the "Lamp" book. At that assembly the "Organization" book was released. I recall no information about "1975" being recorded in the "Lamp" book.

Separation of Powers

Absolute genius!!!

That is the first time that I have ever heard that argument. It is very imaginitive and addresses a lot of issues. It is, however, absolute nonsense!

The book "Lamp" may well have been written by Ray, just as the Commentary of James was probably written by Ray. That really doesn't matter. Neither book was the basis for 1975. The book, Life Everlasting and Freedom of the Sons of God, is the foundation for the 1975 debacle. Whether or not Ray was head of the Writing Committee or not is inconsequential. The contents of the book are purely FW Franz. As a kid, I remember FW's concluding comments at an International Convention...."TREMENDOUS PROBABILITY" were the words he used as they reverberated through the stadium...and people clapped, oh boy did they clap.

Back to the argument, this is a simple case of revisionism. The older crowd of JW's is replete with those who don't want to look foolish as they get closer to their ultimate end. The cognitive dissonance forces them to create a reason to believe they were not duped, otherwise, as many have said, "what was it all for?"

SOP

Splash

I would be asking for hard evidence, like has your Dad read that for himself or is he just repeating a rumour?

Tell him it behooves a person to do proper research. He'll like that - it's a good WT word. Behooves.

Splash

Terry

When I've encountered blanket statements of absurdity such the Ray Franz rumor variety I angle my head slightly sideways and speak two words:

"Your source?"

My former best friend (still a JW) told me with a straight face that Franz had been disfellowship for refusing to go out in field service.

I countered with: "Your source?" And he made up something obviously ridiculous.

I responded with, "How would you define the word 'rumor' and what does the Society teach about rumors"?

Let's face it, there is no information inside the Watchtower Society. Information content is zero. What fills the vacuum are lunatic rumors.

End of story.

scary21

So easy to blame all Freds wacky ideas on Ray.......since they have the same last name. Funny how they don't believe what Fred wrote ( the JW ). But probably agree with the articles Ray wrote ( the apostate ) If you showed them some of the articles in the WT that Ray wrote....or the James book by Ed........they would say how wonderful they were.................JUST another FLIP FLOP with the names ...lol

Scary Sherry

'Lamp' book by Ray Franz???

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