Universal sovereignty, The Tower of Babel and witness tampering (page 4)

sinis

http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_1.htm

Just like the human genome... and "ages" of men. Almost every culture seperated by time and space speak of the same beginnings of man, and "ages" of man, "gods" made man for slaves, used primitive humanoids, moved onto another version, altered monkeys, and finally, as in almost every culture the "gods" shed their blood and mixed it with the last creation to make a human/man that could think and do work. In the jungles of the Yucatan - interesting time :) - the Maya elders speak of extreme similarities with stories of creation as found in Sumerians, Greeks, Native Americans, Indus Valley, and the Bible texts... how?

Maybe from one source, with carried verbal stories passed down, but is there truth to it? Or a primitive perception of how life got here?

Jeffro

sinis:

I believe there is much more to life and our origins than most people think, or want to believe. There is truth in everything, you just have to be able to find it through research

Thanks for the non sequitur. Whatever mysteries there may be about the origins of life, they have nothing to do with the Bible, including the silly story about Babel.

sinis

...but Bab-el DOES NOT MEAN CONFUSION, it means Gate of the God(s). Why would it have nothing to do with the Bible? The Bible would just be one instance of a text that interpreted (badly) what had been handed down from prior texts, and peoples. It provides a good starting point and over all general idea that allows one to delve further into mythos and perhaps reality... plus, I beliee you also have to take the context - literal translation or meaning. The flood speaks of the Earth, but most scholars understand that to represent the "land" of the area. So to with "heavens", could simply be sky... stories change over time through bastardized word of mouth...

Jeffro

sinis:

Almost every culture seperated by time and space speak of the same beginnings of man, and "ages" of man, "gods" made man for slaves, used primitive humanoids, moved onto another version, altered monkeys, and finally, as in almost every culture the "gods" shed their blood and mixed it with the last creation to make a human/man that could think and do work.

There's retconning going on in your explanation there. The common thread to such stories is that in each society, a small group of men (e.g. a priesthood or other ruling classes) has convinced the general populace that there are 'gods' who must be worshipped, 'coincidentally' to the advantage of the ruling class.

Simon

I don't think it makes a mockery of the biblical account, considering the biblical account is a plagarized version of much older texts.

Well that makes a mockery of the bible account doesn't it? "Mockery" as in "can't possibly be the real story" - i.e. if it was a copy then it's not the inspired word of god.

The logic still applies to the source text.

I think you're confusing lifting a large heavy stone with moving a large heavy stone. Yes, they moved them a short distance - they didn't try to lift them up onto something else. There is a limit to how high you can build something with stone precisely because of it's own weight.

The point is, the towers they built could never have been very high. The Pyramids are probably as tall as you can go and are less 'tower' and more 'big pile of rock' (but still very clever).

sinis

Nimrod/Etana and the Kingdom of Cush/Kish

Which of the Sumerian kingdoms known to us from the historical record best fit the scriptural description of Nimrod and his people as found in Genesis? The best candidate for Nimrod's kingdom appears to be the Sumerian kingdom of Kish, known from the earliest times for having consolidated the entire region into a single empire. Sumerian primary sources state that the first dynasty of Kish immediately followed the great deluge (Kramer, History Begins at Sumer, 227), and that one of the most important city-states of Sumeria was Kish "which, according to Sumerian legendary lore, had received the 'kingship' from heaven immediately after the 'flood'" (Kramer, History, 31). Later Sumerian rulers coveted the title "king of Kish" to reflect sovereignty over the whole land. The presence of a unified state with hegemony over all the land in the earliest times, in contrast to the later warring city-states, is consistent with both the Genesis account and the additional details offered in the Book of Jasher.

I had independently concluded that Nimrod must have been the legendary king of Kish who united Sumeria because of the correspondence of many historical and scriptural details, only to subsequently find that Roy Hales has written about this topic from a slightly different perspective while arriving at many of the same conclusions while citing additional supporting evidence (see Etana and the First Kingdom of Man," http://www.creationism.org/csshs/v10n1p19.htm). The name Kish corresponds closely with that of Nimrod's father Cush. Hales observes that among the kings of Kish, one strongly stands out as a candidate for the scriptural Nimrod. Etana, the thirteenth king of Kish on the Sumerian King's list, is listed as having become "king and ruler" by virtue of having "consolidated all countries." The passage regarding the reign of Etana calls to mind the story of Nimrod, builder of the tower of Babel: "They planned the city; the [...] gods laid the foundation; they planned the shrine...May the city be the nest, the resting place of mankind, may the king be the shepherd...may Etana be the builder." Hales states: "A subsequent king of Ur around 2040 BC dug up this inscription: "The erection (building) of this tower (temple highly offended all the gods. In a night they threw down) what man had built and impeded their progress. They were all scattered abroad and their speech was strange" (need source). Nimrod is referred to in scripture as "a mighty hunter," and the author or scribe of Genesis observes that the proverb "even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the Lord" remained in common use down to his own day (Genesis 10:9). Etana was known as the "king of animals." Hales further observes: "The scattering of Etana Nimrod's kingdom would appear to have taken place during Sumeria's late Uruk, and early Jemdet Nasr phase. A strong Sumerian influence is known in Egypt from this time."

http://www.cumorah.com/index.php?target=view_other_articles&story_id=3&cat_id=3

sinis

The stones at Baalbek were transported and LIFTED - something that rivals modern engineering. The pyramids in the Yucatan are cut with such precision that you cannot even stick a piece of paper edge wise into the cracks. Pretty impressive... for jungle people...

I agree that the Bible is not the inspired word of god, I never indicated that it ever was. In fact, I don't believe in "god" as per christianity, or other religions. However, I find the basis for the stories interesting to say the least as they coorelate with other cultures...

sinis

Jeffro: If you go back far enough, who were the "gods"? I sure as hell don't know, but several ancient texts and holy books indicate they were not from here...

Jeffro

sinis:

If you go back far enough, who were the "gods"? I sure as hell don't know, but several ancient texts and holy books indicate they were not from here...

Sounds like you were sucked in by Chariots of the Gods.

Priesthoods developed from shamanism. The further back you go, you get to other people who made up ideas.

hamsterbait

HOW MANY PEOPLE WERE BUILDING THE "GREAT TOWER"???

In less than one hundred years three couples produce a HUGE population enough to fill jehoobies heart with fear?

Children putting bricks together frightened GOD - was he saaaaad. Poor baby...

HB

Universal sovereignty, The Tower of Babel and witness tampering

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