They Came Back!

by jerome 24 Replies latest jw experiences

• 

  Mulan

  Jerome, don't be too discouraged. Years ago, I called on a young minister, when I was a pioneer. He asked really good questions, and wanted to keep talking to me, so I agreed to come again. He had done his homework, and had a list of WT magazines he wanted to look at. He asked if I would get them for him. He gave me a list with page numbers on it too. I looked them all up, and was pretty shocked by the material.........all the changes that had been made in the 1914 situation, and what the generation really was. I was still a true believer, of course, so I kind of dismissed it all, and told him I didn't have all of the issues he wanted, but I did take a yearbook that he asked for. I continued to call on him for some time, and each time, he made me feel less and less secure about my own beliefs.

  The moral: About three years later, when I was realizing that all the things my husband had been talking to me about, were true, I remembered the things that young man had told me, and it all went together and made me draw the conclusions I was ready to make. He helped in his own way. So you are planting seeds, for sure. I drive past his house every week, and think about stopping to tell him his part in my life changes, but I hesitate, because I don't want the recruiting to his church. But, I may do it one day anyway.

  Marilyn (aka Mulan)
  "No one can take advantage of you, without your permission." Ann Landers
  
• 

  jerome

  Mulan

  Thanks for the encouragement.

  Some of the things that you mentioned in your post really reinforced stuff that I already knew.

  You said that the minister showed you alot of things and even though you knew that he was right you couldent admit it to him. Ive been hearing about shuch instances for a while now. Where JWs just cant admit to anyone that the Watchtower was wrong about something important.

  Also you said that he planted some seeds of doubt but it was something else that caused you to put everything all togeather. Ive also come across situations like that before.

  But finally you mentioned that it was your own personal decision to beging questioning your faith and that noone forced you to. Thats whats most important to me.

  Honestly though:

  Conversing with Jws requires a hell of alot of patience and tollerance.

  I noticed that they get mad if you say the wrong thing so you really got to be carefull.

  But with the kind of attitude that Jws that I have come across I dont really know if I can maintain any desire to converse with them for very long.

  Becausewhen you know that what you are saying is 100% absolutely correct and you make it clear that you have proof and from their own books at that,

  They get all proud and start to laugh quietly to themself and look at you like if youre a moron or something.

  Its like they start to think, Oh what a silly little worldly mind you have... Look he dosent even realize how decieved he is.

  That kinda attitude is really hard to cope with. Especially when you think about how ironic the situation is.

  And even worse than that, they lie. Big and bold, and they dont even seem to care.

  But at least i've learned a few things in the process.

  There is no way into the mind of a JW. All the roads are blocked.

  The only way in is if they let you.

  So its just that you have to ask.

  I dont see any other way but to ask them to let down at least one of their defenses so that you could have a decent discussion.

  But if they do not, theres no other way.

  jerome
• 

  jerome

  I just had to add this:

  Its really hard to know that you are absolutely 100% right about something and have people call you a liar.

  You tell them that you have proof and that youre not lying and when you show them they dismiss it or dont get your point.

  Its even worse when they look down on you when in actuallity its you that are trying to help them.

  Its not enough that they disagree with you but they have to get all condesending and begin to privately redicule you.

  Thats whats really fustrating.

  If I can learn to cope with that kinda attitude i'll be a better man.
• 

  NewLight2

  Jerome,

  Have you considered that maybe you ARE getting through to them, only they CAN'T let you know it. You see there is a REASON that JW's always work in pairs. They simply are afraid - because of the df/shunning thing - to let their partner KNOW how they really believe if it differs from what the WT puts into print. If one of them were to admit in front of their believing partner, that you DID have a valid point, that other JW would run to the elders and tattle. The end result would be that the doubting JW would get into a heap of trouble and may even be df'd. The price of agreeing with you is just too high. So both JW's continue to spout the party line.

  That may be the reason that you have been able to converse with your girlfriend so sucessfully. She doesn't have any other JW's around to hear what she is thinking and saying to you. BUT if you were to hold the same conversations with your girlfriend while her parents were listening in, it may not go so well. She would feel that she HAD to also spout the party line in front of her JW parents.

  I would suggest that you go VERY slowly when inter-reacting with her JW parents. It may be well to avoid the subject of religion altogether. Just try to impress her parents with your good morality and Bible based life-style. Let them get to know you as a person before you even THINK of trying to show them how wrong the WT is. Let THEM teach you about the JW faith, while you just "play dumb" for awhile. Ask only those types of questions that will force them to see the contradictions for themselves while doing research to answer your questions. Plant little seeds of doubt. Avoid the "big" topics. Ask about holidays, the cross vs the stake, the name Jehovah in the NT etc. You might mention to them that you just happen to have heard that when Russell was their leader, he thought that it was ok to celebrate Christmas. Ask them to find out for you WHEN celebrating Christmas first became a no-no. Ask them to show you some Scripture that forbids the celebrating of holidays. You could mention that the Jewish faith sure had lots of holidays to celebrate in the Bible. If it was ok then, why not now? Stuff like that.

  The bottom line here is that if you are too honest with your girlfriends JW parents, it will force your girlfriend to choose between following her parents wishes or turning her back on her parents. She will probably choose to let you go rather then lose all of her family.

  NewLight2
• 

  Balsam

  Dear Jerome,

  It was someone like you who began the crack in my witness mentality. I know how impossible it is to reason with witnesses as I was one for 29 yrs. But being exposed to the truth about the WTS a tiny bit at a time causes witnesses to save the information in a back file and examine it later. You did very good talking to them and reasoning with them, even if you didn't see it. You will not see anything happening with this conversation, it may be years down the road before they begin to really come awake and think of your words.

  If I could locate the fellow who had made me think of the confidence I but blindly in the WTS I would hug him today. He provided the step away from that blind trust. It take time and years for witness to feel like they can truefully examine what it is they are putting confidence in.

  Balsam