A Video Series about 607 BC vs 587 BC

by Londo111 272 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • scholar
    scholar

    AnnOMaly

    Steinmann does mention 537BCE as a credible date in the footnote on the first page of his article . His article is the latest on the subject of the Return and he certainly does not support 538 BCE. I mention his article because it is the latest scholarship and highlights how complex this subject and silences those who are dogmatic about the false date of 538 BCE. There is no room for dogma in chronology.

    Rodger Young supports 587 BCE but his regnal lists for the Divided Monarchy supports WT chronology. My purpose in referring to Rodger Young is that he stresses the importanc eof methodology in doing chronology which supports scholar's truism before Young's article appeared in the literature that Chronology = Methodology+Interpretation.

    I cannot comment as to whether Furuli has dug himself deeper because I do not have his revised editionof his second volume.

    The Fall of Assyria marking the beginning of the seventy years is problematic because no year can be positively asserted for not all historians would agree that 609 BCE should be the only marker for the purposes of chronology. As you Jonsson also proposes 605 BCE and in my view this is a more chronologically significant date. Yes I agree with you and I always have that the seventy years represents dominion under Babylon but Jeremiah's prophecy restricts this to Judah alone in concert with other nations also being under Babylonian domination. For Judah these seventy years also meant exile and desolation of the land. There is no discrepancey with the seventy years of Tyre because the respective seventy years for Judah and Tyre are not historically or theologically identified. The only commonality between the two nations is that of servitude to Babylon and the fact that for Judah there was a precise length calcuable and for Tyre a length of time uncalcuable. If you disagree then please give a timeframe with dates and event for Tyre for Isaiah does not give these details.

    Yes at times 607 and 606 were given as precise dates for the Fall and with advances in chronology 607 is now believed to be the precise date. Chronology has and always be a work in progress for it is not and exact science as far as I know but you may know better. The foundation for 607 BCE is as firm as ever even the more so if one introduces Neo-Babylonian chronology into the picture. There is a gap of twenty years between Bible chronology and NB chronology. The intoduction of the seventy years which is omitted in NBC fine tunes or readjusts such chronology harmonizing it with biblical chronology. That means that scholar can fully utilize NB chronology as a support for the validity of 607 BCE all because of a unrecognized piesce of Jewish history-Jeremiah's seventy years. This Romance at its best!!

    You know full well that scholars and historians nominate 586 rather than 587. The date 586 is the preferred option no doubt to the legacy of Edwin Thiele. I cannot be held responsible for the comment in the Wt article in which you have some difficulty. I suggest you write about it. I did not edit the article, I would have expressed the matter differently.

    Not quite, even thoughthe leadership changed at Babylon with the Medo-Persian Empire the exiled Jews still remained in Babylon and were still in her cluthes undera new king of Babylon so in respect of their exile, captivity, desolation of the land nothing had changed until the Decree of Cyrus. Jeremiah 25; 12 quite clearly foretold the fate of the king, the land and territory as I have explained many times in great detail on this forum.

    I raise the matter of COJ with Jeffro because Jeffro has simply rpeated or rehashed the Jonsson nonsense. He says that he has noit read COJ but how can he be trusted.? If you trust his word fine but for me the coincidence is too much. If Jeffro used scholarship as COJ has done then that would give some credibilkity to his independent research but Jeffro shows no interest in such therefore suspicsion remains.

    I do not desperately seek scholarship to support 607 BCE. I seek scholarship to broaden by horizon of understanding and to keep up to date. There is no need of desperation because I have long held the view that WT chronology is supported by secular chronology with the adjustment of the seventy years.

    For example if a watch is out of sync with some standard of time the watchmaker uses a screwdriver to adjust the watch so that it tells the corect time. The screwdriver in this case is the seventy years, the watch is the NB chronology and the universal standard is WT-Bible chronology. Don't you love this powerful illustration?

    COJ submitted a review of the first WT article but did not supply a review of the second to my knowledge. Doug Mason wrote for the second which was endorsed or supported by COJ as far as I remember but my files are boxed at the moment.

    Competence and agreement are not both sides of the same coin. At the very least I have the tools at hand!

    scholar JW

  • scholar
    scholar

    Comatose

    I have answered and responded to all of the issues and question asked of me on this forum over many years and if you took the trouble to look over all of my postings you will that this is the case. I cannot remember off hand any single issue or single question that I have not addressed.

    scholar JW

  • Fencing
    Fencing

    So, why again is has someone who is obviously a true believing Witness been conversing and arguing with apostates for 12 years now in direct opposition to Jehovah's own guidance as given through the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

  • scholar
    scholar

    Fencing

    It is called apologia. You are damned if you do and you are damned if you dont. I was wondering how long before this objection would show up. Also, put it down to Conscience and Christian Freedom.

    scholar JW

  • Fencing
    Fencing

    So you willingly flaunt Jehovah's own council? What, it doesn't apply to you?

  • scholar
    scholar

    Fencing

    Do you want me to go away? If so then I will.

    scholar JW

  • Fencing
    Fencing

    The question isn't about whether I want you to go away. It's why *you* don't want to go away.

  • iCeltic
    iCeltic

    Strangely I found this a very interesting discussion. I was never that clued up on it even when I was a jw but my first thought would be if you have a date in mind (1914) that you want to match this to, does that in itself not become a problem? If you are looking at history to fit what you want it to for rather than having a clear mind. And the absolute fact that Russell first came up with 1914 by measuring pyramids and that so happened to fit what the bible says and now 607 happens to fits wt's vision of 1874....sorry, 1914.

    it is rather irritating that scholar refers to himself the way he does, I'd also say though that (I'll firstly say that I've really enjoyed your posts Jeffro) always calling scholar an idiot isn't the best, name calling begins to take away from what you are saying, just my view and you're welcome to ignore it.

    im glad he's a jw and comes here.

  • scholar
    scholar

    Fencing

    I have answered your question fully.

    scholar JW

  • Comatose
    Comatose

    I wish dates still mattered. Like I said I can't see how they do. I detest smug self righteous people though. Scholar knows how he posts. He isn't trying to help anyone. He is just playing. Which is annoying.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit