A Video Series about 607 BC vs 587 BC (page 25)

Jeffro

scholiar:

I am only aware of one Nabonidus but if you ask Jeffro he will make up one for you as he is in the habit of making things up and living in self delusion.

Idiot.

garyneal

Scholar is back and I see he is up to his tired old tricks again.

Scholar, where in the Bible does it speak about the desolation of Jerusalem for 70 years?

garyneal

Perhaps now is the time to reflect on what Randy Watters said in this thread.

As your pictures clearly show, there is no evidential proof that the event took place in 538. There are several assumptions, without evidences. I am glad you indicated the looseness with the word "possible". Little wonder the event is dated variously from 538 to 535.

Did the writer assign Nisan reckoning or Tishri, accession or non-accession? At which part of his first year did Cyrus make his decee? How long did it take the people to prepare? How long were the people settled in their towns and villages before they ventured to Jerusalem? Where is Daniel's "Darius" and his first year in all of this? Were Cyrus and Darius co-regents?

It's only a problem for the WTS, since it is a pivotal crucial date in their system.

Nowhere does the Scripture say that the 70 years ended with that event. 2 Chr 36 says the 70 years of Babylonian dominance ended when the Persians defeated them. That is simple and obvious.

Thanks,

Doug

Doug Mason

In which year did the Returnees first meet at the temple site?

1. 1. If the writer was using a Nisan calendar and accession-year reckoning, Cyrus’ first year began on 24 March 538 BCE.

2. 2. If the writer was using a Tishri calendar and accession-year reckoning, Cyrus’ first year began on 17 September 538 BCE.

3. 3. Did a first year of Darius precede the rule by Cyrus?

4. 4. What was the date when Cyrus made his decree?

5. 5. How long did it take for thousands of people to prepare their families and belongings?

6. 6. What was the date when they started their trek?

7. 7. Exactly how long did it take before each family arrived in its town or village?

8. 8. Exactly how long did it take for all the families to be settled in their towns and villages?

9. 9. How long did it take for the last one to walk from their home to Jerusalem?

10 10.Where does the Bible say that this event concluded the “Seventy Years”?

Jeffro

Doug Mason:

I am glad you indicated the looseness with the word "possible".

You have misconstrued my use of the word possible. I did not mean that there are other possible periods outside of the period indicated. I mean that Cyrus could have made his decree at any time during the period indicated.

By deductive reasoning, a later period for the decree than that indicated is not possible.

Did the writer assign Nisan reckoning or Tishri, accession or non-accession?

Nisan; accession.

There is no indication that any of the Bible writers counted accession years in any writings during or after the Babylonian exile.

At which part of his first year did Cyrus make his decee?

Already indicated in diagram. Likely towards the beginning of the period indicated, in association with his accession.

How long did it take the people to prepare?

A few months (or even weeks) is sufficient time to prepare. Not all of the Jews left Babylon.

How long were the people settled in their towns and villages before they ventured to Jerusalem?

From the seventh month of one year until the second month of the following year. The same minimum length of time as any other scenario.

Where is Daniel's "Darius" and his first year in all of this?

Darius (the Mede) was a General who captured Babylon for Cyrus. He was governor in Babylon until Cyrus arrived. His location is unimportant.

Were Cyrus and Darius co-regents?

No.

Jeffro

Doug Mason:

In which year did the Returnees first meet at the temple site?

Iyyar (May) 537, as already indicated.

1. If the writer was using a Nisan calendar and accession-year reckoning, Cyrus’ first year began on 24 March 538 BCE.

Correct. Well, close enough. 23 March 538.

2. If the writer was using a Tishri calendar and accession-year reckoning, Cyrus’ first year began on 17 September 538 BCE.

Red herring. The Babylonians didn't use a Tishri calendar, nor did the Bible writers during or after the exile. The Jews also adopted the Babylonian names of the months.

3. Did a first year of Darius precede the rule by Cyrus?

Darius was 'king' (governor) for only a few weeks. Cyrus entered Babylon and took the throne not long after Darius. Darius doesn't have an accession period because he was a governor for Cyrus, not technically a king. (Just as Belshazzar was not actually king despite Daniel's description.)

4. What was the date when Cyrus made his decree?

Red herring. I have already indicated a period of time during which the decree was made.

5. How long did it take for thousands of people to prepare their families and belongings?

The 'thousands of people' could prepare at the same time. It is is not as though each family had to prepare one after the other. Beyond a very small number of people, a very large number of people would not take significantly longer to prepare than a large number of people.

Leaving Babylon was not mandatory. Not all of the Jews left Babylon.

6. What was the date when they started their trek?

Red herring. Most likely about four months before they arrived.

7. Exactly how long did it take before each family arrived in its town or village?

Red herring.

8. Exactly how long did it take for all the families to be settled in their towns and villages?

Red herring.

9. How long did it take for the last one to walk from their home to Jerusalem?

Red herring. Irrelevant question based on a false premise of magical thinking.

10. Where does the Bible say that this event concluded the “Seventy Years”?

Nowhere. The seventy years ended in 539.

AnnOMaly

I have done the research. I have been reearching since the seventies an dyour chropnology on its own unless it is adjusted or fine tuned is collapses. I don need any bullying from you for if you are convinced in your own mind about your research and are happy and content then bully for you.

Neil, can't you keep your story straight? (Also, can't you write coherently?)

You said you didn't have the competence to do the research necessary to assess whether there is any validity to Furuli's/the WT's claims or, for that matter, my and other scholars' criticisms and findings. You have consistently and resolutely REFUSED to look into them and thus remain ignorant.

The mere fact is that all those scholars with PHD 's agree on certain points with you would in their same research would disagree with you on some point.

You wouldn't know one way or the other. You haven't made any comparisons between my findings and theirs. This is always going to be your weak point. You cannot judge the validity (or otherwise) of our research if you don't examine it for yourself - it's as simple as that - and you will continue to look idiotic pontificating on matters you are ignorant of.

The research of Rainer Albertz who wrote a most detailed study on the Exile, published in 2003 by the Society of Biblical Literature a Society made up of the world's prominent scholars who agrees with your chronology mostly but has views on chronology, history and theology similar to JW's.

Another poorly constructed sentence for a graduate, Neil! Anyway, it is not 'my' chronology. It's not 'Jeffro's chronology' or even 'COJ's chronology.' It is the chronology that, as you just noted, "the world's prominent scholars" have established by means of ancient Babylonian records. Where the Bible is ambiguous with its dates, of course there will be different views and some of them may overlap with the WTS's.

You evidently have no qualifications hence a amateur at best.
By the way Furuli has a PHD do you?

What are you? 5 years old? What has that to do with the price of tea in China? His degrees have nothing to do with archaeo-astronomy or history. Again, to quote Prof. Grabbe in his review of Furuli's Vol. 1:

"Once again we have an amateur who wants to rewrite scholarship. ... F. shows little evidence of having put his theories to the test with specialists in Mesopotamian astronomy and Persian history." - Journal for the Study of the Old Testament, 28:5 (2004), p. 42-3.

You're just blowing smoke again. Stop bloviating, stop deflecting and just do the damn research. Or else be quiet. Some advice for you:

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." - Mark Twain

Jeffro

Earlier I said:

The Babylonians didn't use a Tishri calendar, nor did the Bible writers during or after the exile.

I realise this will probably be leapt upon as an alleged 'error'. However, it is accurate in the context of how reigns were counted by Bible writers during and after the Babylonian exile. Other uses of Tishri for starting the civil year are out of scope.

Jeffro

Earlier I said:

Darius (the Mede) was a General who captured Babylon for Cyrus. He was governor in Babylon until Cyrus arrived.

Just to clarify, Darius 'the Mede' = Gobryas (Ugbaru). That Darius 'the Mede' may have continued as governor after Cyrus' arrival has no bearing, as they did not occupy the same position.

A Video Series about 607 BC vs 587 BC

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