Dualism in new WT theology? (page 3)

AnnOMaly

Thoughtless,

Happy to help.

I knew a couple who claimed to be 'anointed' - good, stalwart, old-timer JWs, well-respected - there was no question (as far as the congregation was concerned) about their heavenly calling. They died. Their bodies didn't disappear ... until cremation many days post-mortem. I know that for fact. The heavenly resurrection was supposed to have been underway since 1918 - instant glory upon death, right? Even Jesus' body disappeared (depending on one's theology, he was either using it again or Jehovah disintegrated it) and the 'anointed' are supposed to have a resurrection like his, no?

That was about the time the penny began to drop on this particular JW teaching.

Thoughtless

I have never even seen it like that. Wow.

Satanus

Here is more to make the brain hurt....

*** w10 4/1 p. 5 What Jesus Taught About Himself ***
“The Son of man” Jesus used this expression more than any other to refer to himself. (Matthew 8:20) He thus showed that he was neither a materialized angel nor an incarnation. Rather, he was fully human. By his holy spirit, God transferred his Son’s life from heaven to earth, causing conception in the womb of the virgin girl Mary. As a result, Jesus was born as a perfect, sinless human.—Matthew 1:18; Luke 1:35; John 8:46

My enterpretation of this is that the wt tries to stear clear of dualism. Ann's question remains...

'What is the 'something' of the person that can exist without the physical body? Surely that 'something' is non-physical, intangible.'

S

DATA-DOG

So what is a "soul " it's the body combined with the spirit. It's pretty simple, you are a Soul. You have your own individual life-force/spirit and a physical body. From a scriptural standpoint, why couldn't God give you a spiritual body for your spirit when the physical one dies? Jw's say that all things are possible with God, but do they believe it? When Jesus died, did his oxygen go back to God?!

Good points Annomaly and Satanus. As usual, the GB like's it both ways..

DD

Thoughtless

From what I heard, it is like a "cloud" in which Jehovah puts your essence in his memory, and then just recreates you or something. I heard a brother say it from a platform once, at the time I just bought it, but eh.

DATA-DOG

LOL!!! A cloud that is not in heaven, according to the Bible Teach book..

page 211:

" Speaking about man's death, Ecclesiastes 12:7 states: "The dust [of his body] returns to the earth just as it happened to be and the spirit itself returns to the true God who gave it." When the spirit, or life-force, leaves the body, the body dies and returns to where it came from-the earth. Comparably, the life-force returns to where it came from-God. (Job 34:14, 15; Psalm 36:9) This does not mean that the life-force actually travels to heaven. Rather, it means that for someone who dies, any hope of future life rests with Jehovah God. His life is in God's hands, so to speak. Only by God's power can the spirit, or life-force, be given back so that a person may live again."

Why should JW's be taught this " truth?" ( Review the definition of "truth" according to the GB sanctioned District Convention)

page 65, paragraph 19:

" 19 Knowing the truth about the dead protects you from being misled by religious lies. It also helps you to understand other Bible teachings. For example, when you realize that people do not pass on to the spirit realm at death, the promise of everlasting life on a paradise earth takes on real meaning for you.

Paradise Earth occurs twice in the NWT.

1) In the intoduction.

2) a footnote.

What happens when the "truth" about " paradise earth " is real to JW's? Why teach that the spirit does not return to heaven, where God resides?

Satanus

'This does not mean that the life-force actually travels to heaven. Rather, it means that for someone who dies, any hope of future life rests with Jehovah God. His life is in God's hands, so to speak. Only by God's power can the spirit, or life-force, be given back so that a person may live again."'

So then, when jesus' 'life' was transfered from heaven to mary, was anything transfered? My question, unanswerable by jws, i would guess. The nice thing about this question is that its a simple yes, no question. No long explanation is necesary. Although, if a jw DID answer yes or no, an explanation would be required.

S

Thoughtless

Yeah, I am going to do more research on this. I mean, despite Greco-Roman and Babylonian influences, it just seems inevitable that dualism is a Biblical "truth".

AnnOMaly

From what I heard, it is like a "cloud" in which Jehovah puts your essence in his memory, and then just recreates you or something. I heard a brother say it from a platform once, at the time I just bought it, but eh.

I heard the 'hard drive' analogy.

The question is, what continues of 'you'? Is it your essence that continues to exist or just a memory of that essence? If you are merely an idea or a piece of information (or memory) on God's 'hard drive,' when He 'resurrects' you, is it really 'you' or is it a copy or recreation of 'you'? Does the 'real you' or 'original you' 'stand up again' or does a 'replicant you' 'stand up'?

Thoughtless

Ann, I have actually never thought of it like that. I just thought it was just me, in physical form that is.

Dualism in new WT theology?

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