What the heck is a Godhead?
by Rattigan350 31 Replies latest watchtower bible
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punkofnice
Godhead, dickhead....no difference.
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designs
Have you any proof of God transubstantiating as claimed.
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Black Sheep
It's easy. For example, if you want to know what it means to a Catholic, look it up in their encyclopedia. Google something like 'catholic encyclopedia godhead', then try and understand their official position without rephrasing it to mean things that they are not saying, which is the trick the Watchtower uses to scam JWs into thinking the Catholics have no scriptural support for their Trinity.
I haven't yet met a Catholic bashing JW who actually understood what the Trinity is according to the Catholic Encyclopedia. They all bashed Modalism under their illusion that Modalism represented the Catholic's Trinity.
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humbled
The problem with anyone saying they know what is this or that about God is---where does it end?
I was in a nondenominational (but not really) bible study where the moderator told me that she never knew a real Christian who didn't believe in the Trinity. I told her If I believed there was a father, a son and a holy spirit (minus the capital letters in the bibles we read from) I didn't see why I should be required to say I knew more or less than that. Why should I say I believed in a "Trinity"?
She insisted that all mainstream xtian denominations believed it. I asked her where would it end, this believing in a trinity, if I wanted to be included with most christians? Because saynig you believed in a thing that you can't really explain in the first place creates other problems in theology.
I asked if she had ever heard of "filioque".
She had. and that is about where the discussion ended. Because we both knew the problem of developing the Trinity doctrine split the early church beyond those who did or did not believe it. Once the early church had thrashed and trashed each other over the matter of making a clover of God, the next fight was this: Did the holy spirit proceed from the father through the son or from the father and the son?
The Church split again over this doctrine so there is still the Eastern Orthodox teaching and the Roman catholic one with all the Protestants strung out between.
Why? What is the practical value of this? and really ,where does it end?
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adamah
Sarasmile said:
Now that is a different twist! Through out the bible Jehovah Almighty had messengers. He ask different messengers ,angels, to perform certain tasks and report back to him. So do you think Jehovah God knows thing because the angels convey it to him. Other than that he Jehovah would not know anything.
Not really: in Genesis, God is depicted as more limited in his powers (non-omniscient, lacking Divine fore-knowledge, eg he shows regret for the prior decisions he made by regretting making man, hence the need for the Flood). God had to personally go down to check out the Tower of Babel, and didn't even send angels to investigate (and certainly didn't possess remote viewing capabilities of activities on Earth on his Divine Foreknowledge™ 42" plasma sceen TV). God "matures" in later writings, developing more and more powers as later claims for his powers escalated, or he sends angels, etc.
humbled said-
Why? What is the practical value of this? and really ,where does it end?
The ability to create intentionally-confusing theology is an attempt to gain power over others, since it serves as some justification for the existence of those who claim to be able to sort it all out, AKA spiritual advisors, leaders, priests, elders, Governing Body, etc.
Think of those people who are fans of Harry Potter, LOTR, etc, and have gained massive amounts of trivial knowledge on their subject; it's like those types, except actually MORE dangerous since unlike the typical Tolkien fan, they won't actually admit their Holy Book is also based on a tradition of fantasy.
Adam
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sarahsmile
Adamah -I disagree with your conclusion about Almighty God. You make him seem lesser of the three by implying what you said. I could be wrong. I believe the Almighty Father can do what he wants and his glory humans can not handle so he sent his son. And his son sent Holy Spirit. They do nothing without the command of the Father.
Humbled - I agree with you if one believes in the Father,son,and holy spirit why bother labeling them into a doctrine. Trinity has been argued for years, I some times think that is why God can read hearts. Some seemed to think that non Trinitarian will not be resurrected or be saved. Just because they do not take the time to understand and would prefer to judge.
Blacksheep- I noticed that when JW start bashing Catholics it about Trinity. Right on most have never looked into a Catholic encyclopedia. I had a book called Catholicism and it was so detailed nothing to what the WT teaches about Trinity.
Some one mentioned Arius- On the internet the Catholics now have a section for non Trinitarian because Arius. I would have joined but they believe in praying to Mother Mary. ekks!
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cofty
As you can see from this thread it impossible to talk about the trinity without self-contradiction.
Theologians talk in metaphors - like godhead - because they don't have anything rational to say.
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sarahsmile
Yeah it really is a moot point. Still for exJWs it is better to understand that there are scriptures to prove Holy Spirit as a God and Adamah just found another one.
Godhead is unique and with three: Father,Son,Holy Spirit it is simple. They are equal in purpose. Through out time theologians are the ones who use reasoning to explain Godhead compared to WTBTS lack of eduacation. They just keep it simple without comparing Godhead to paganism.
I beginning to think it is the Jehovahs Witnesses that are the evil slave class. It make me wonder.
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adamah
sarahsmile said-
Adamah -I disagree with your conclusion about Almighty God. You make him seem lesser of the three by implying what you said. I could be wrong. I believe the Almighty Father can do what he wants and his glory humans can not handle so he sent his son. And his son sent Holy Spirit. They do nothing without the command of the Father.
I didn't state any conclusion about "Almighty God", but merely added some not-so-common knowledge of how ancient men conceived of "spirit". This idea was not confined to just the ancient Hebrews (Hebrew word is 'ruah', translated as "spirit"), but also Greeks, Romans, Babylonians, etc. The idea of spirits eminating from others to carry one's communications was common-place, or to give others strength via spirit (it's the basis of why alcholic drinks are still referred to as 'spirits'). All of that is verifable fact, eg spirit is referred to in writings of Homer when mortals communicate.
Yeah it really is a moot point. Still for exJWs it is better to understand that there are scriptures to prove Holy Spirit as a God and Adamah just found another one.
Huh? I didn't offer "proof" of Holy Spirit: I discredited the belief in spirits, by explaining the historical roots of the concept.
Not knowing that has allowed people to transform the idea of 'spirits' into some mystical and magical power/being, when it's not: it only seems that way IF you don't understand the historical context of the idea.
Adam
