"Snakes will eat dirt in the new order." (page 4)

Jeffro

I got bored and stopped reading about a third of the way through.

Good catch regarding the NWT's translation of Genesis 3:6.

Comatose

adamah, great read. I reason pretty much identically the same as you. If the WT hadn't turned me into an alcoholic and forced me to quit drinking, I'd wish we get beers sometime. :-)

adamah

Jeffro said-

I got bored and stopped reading about a third of the way through.

Good catch regarding the NWT's translation of Genesis 3:6.

Yeah, it's a bit scattered, but I try to hit on all different levels; something that gets through to someone is going to be different for another (ie there is no "one size fits all" magic argument that breaks the barrier for everyone).

The Genesis 3 find was something I didn't go out of my way to find; it found me when I was talking to a JW at a Starbucks, LOL! I asked him to look it up in the NWT, and was shocked (but not really surprised to find they're the ONLY translation to try and bury the "wisdom-granting" bit, as if no one would notice! "Lying scribes", indeed.

Comatose said-

adamah, great read. I reason pretty much identically the same as you. If the WT hadn't turned me into an alcoholic and forced me to quit drinking, I'd wish we get beers sometime. :-)

Thanks for the complement! I don't drink much these days, either, since drinking kills brain cells (and I like Homer Simpsons' theory that only the strong ones survive)!

I'll be writing a new article on my blog explaining why Jesus felt the need to pooh-pooh the practice of handwashing before eating (Mark 7), saying it was a worthless practice, since it was a "tradition of men".

I recently talked to people engaging in a project in Africa (Zambia), installing inexpensive filters that produce potable drinking water from pathogenic disease-causing water sources, teaching hygenic practices in a country where millions die from preventable diseases caused by drinking dirty water, poor hygenic practices (including lack of handwashing), and poor sanitation. These folks are actually DOING something to help save lives:

http://www.sohip.org

Apparently Jesus could turn water into wine to prevent social embarrassment at wedding receptions, could heal the sick via miracles, but Jesus couldn't be bothered to turn dirty disease-laden water into clean drinking water to prevent disease! He only cured them AFTER they were sick.

Worse: Jesus actively discouraged the ONE hygenic practice which actually made sense from a public health standpoint when science investigated the issue thousands of years later: handwashing before eating (and after elimination/urination, etc). It's almost as if Jesus wasn't familiar with the germ theory of disease? How could that be: it wasn't like he was there when God created bacteria and viruses, right?

So much for the claim of having Divine insight....

I'll post a link to my blog when the article is done.

Adamah

Julia Orwell

@ Adamah, wow, well caught! That changes the whole JW premise doesn't it? And how sneaky of the WT to do that in the NWT!! No wonder they don't want you reading Hebrew.

scary21

Fast moving dirt....LMAO

mP

mP said:

Not quite, the ancients beleived snakes were messengers of god. Thats why Eve listened to the snake. They blieved they were eternal and not mortal due to snakes shedding their skin and being reborn.

Adamah

Yeah, that's quibbling over details that neither of us can claim any certainty of KNOWING: those people are long dead, and the far majority didn't leave directed statements explaining their beliefs.

mP:

Thats simply not true. Snakes were special in ancient tradition, the Hebrew religion was no different from everybody else. Most religions are pretty

similar in the end.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seraphim

The word seraphim , literally "burning ones", transliterates a Hebrew plural noun; translation yields seraphs . The singular, "seraph", is more properly rendered saraph . The word saraph/seraphim appears three times in the Torah (Numbers 21:6–8, Deuteronomy 8:15) and four times in the Book of Isaiah (6:2–6, 14:29, 30:6). In Numbers and Deuteronomy the "seraphim" are serpents—the association of serpents as "burning ones" is possibly due to the burning sensation of the poison. [1] Isaiah also uses the word in close association with words to describe snakes ( nachash, the generic word for snakes, in 14:29, and epheh, viper, in 30:6).

mP

Adamah

In this instance, the story likely was originally written for a Hebrew audience living circa 500 BC emerging from exile in Babylon, and they held many divergent beliefs based on the older mythology of the ancient Babylonians, Sumerians, etc. IN MOST cases, the ancient hearer of the story knew of the snake's association with special powers, having Divine insight by seemingly possess the secret powers of regeneration, etc. That viewpoint changed with time as syncretism under Persian/Hellenistic/Roman influences occurred, but the point is not to understand what the mythical character EVE believed in 4,000 BC, but what the AUDIENCE would think.

mP:

Thats because all ancient religions were actually quite similar. They all contain fertility and astrological aspects, thats why they celebrate the equinoxes and solstices along with assigning 7 and 12 for many things. I could go on if you wish.

The jews copied the writing system, calendar, language of their neighbours so its no surprise they also copied their religion, which foor them was their scientific way of understranding their world.

Julia Orwell

I know the ancient Romans used the snake as a symbol of wisdom. Interesting.

And if Eve was the full quid, I always wondered when I was a JW why she didn't say, "Holy crap! A talking snake!" That's what I would have said.

mP

Julia

Everybody assigned magical powers to snakes. YOu can find the cadacus (sp) and its meaning everywhere. Doctors today, greeks, romans as you have metioned, moses and nehashutan(the copper snake), everybody has the same or a similar story. Some cultures made the snakes into dragons breathing fire and flying. We can see this in the chinese culture and even in the americas with t he aztecs (quetzc* i cant remember the rest) and more.

Julia Orwell

I wonder why that is, mP? It's very interesting. The Aborigines had the Rainbow Serpent too, just as another example. However, you don't find a lot of cultures who believe in magical turtles or frogs or lions etc. Some cultures do, but not anywhere near as many who do snakes.

"Snakes will eat dirt in the new order."

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