by ILoveTTATT 39 Replies latest jw friends
I need help, though, getting my relatives out of the WT!! Even if it takes me months!!
This statement alone tells me you are being way too aggressive. Accept right here and now that your relatives will probably NEVER leave the WTS. If they do, it will take YEARS in most cases, if not longer.
The WT offers paradise earth with a petting zoo along with fruit platters for all of eternity. Can you compete with that?
ILOVETTATT- Welcome to the board ! Nice to have you here. You are right- you need to read Steve Hassan's 3 books explaining mind control and how the WT Society uses fear and guilt to control JW members. He mentions examples of it in Book # 2 & 3. His books helped me immensely
Have you read Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz ?
He dissects every little detail bit by bit. Many still need
to cling to the idea we have "special Knowledge" Its a cozy
cocoon of what they dilusionally believe is some kind of "safety"
The idea "we know things" other people do not and that to question
anything the WT says is "dangerous" the fear factor is enormous and the
punishments for questioning or "independent thinking" are absolute banishment.
If you have family, or work for jw's or have to be cautious or have relatives
who will shun you, proceed with caution. Free yourself from within
and find some way to exit with the least trauma.
Resistance is futile in the Borg.
People have to be in the right place mentally to hear what you are trying to tell them. Otherwise cult programming rasserts itselft and they just repeat the same old platitudes and are reassured again.
Try to connect to the authentic person rather than talk about doctrine. Ask if they were not in the organisation what might they have done, what career may they have pursued etc
Talk to them about other high control groups, the techniques they use etc.
Look at threads here where people have successfully engaged with witnesses and the tools they have used.
If they mention doctrine to you ask them to explain it. Don't tell them stuff ask them to explain stuff to you. Don't let them gloss over the facts or uncomfortable truths ask them to provide evidence to you.
Welcome ILoveTTATT, DITTO what Black Sheep wrote. Your first mistake is telling JWs about TTATT. Your second mistake is not reading Steve Hassan's books to help you discover your hidden WTBTS phobias, as well as, to learn how to help others to critically think for themselves. If you don't have time to read Steve Hassan's books, watch the videos that I provide links to below. Please remember that TTATT is more about critically thinking for yourself instead of leaving the WTBTS.
I would recommend that you do the following to help you make your plan(s) to fade from the WTBTS, and, if possible, help other JWs, who you love to critically think for themselves.:
Best of wishes of you fading from the WTBTS and helping others to critically think for themselves.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
Hi all!
Thanks for your comments!! It is soooo ironic that "apostates" are actually such loving people!! Just look at yourselves!! People helping a total stranger like me... we have all been hurt by the WT, it is an awesome thing that this forum exists!
@Problemaddict:
The reason I want to tell the TATT is that I really feel a horrible guilt, a horrible shame and like you said, a "fire" inside me that just wants to scream WAKE UP PEOPLE!! I truly feel for the people whose lives are affected by it, going from the worst effects such as death from the blood issue, to relatively minor such as passing some embarrasment because of preaching. Shunning, the blood issue, restricting who you marry, restricting higher education, I think those are some of the more life-altering doctrines of JW's. I know that I am getting it all wrong (trying in the wrong ways to help people I love see TTATT), I have just realized how strong the mind control is, and it is absolutely scary to see people act like zombies... hard proof does not really dissuade them (they are stunned, they think for a nanosecond, and then they stop thinking). The one who I really want to "save" is my father. My mother is totally lost, she is insanely hardcore JW...
1. I just thought that one of the best ways to persuade a JW was by showing them that the NT has been changed, that in essence the JW's state they do not believe in the NT because all the manuscripts are corrupt... you would think that at least this would make them think since most JW's and most Christians respect the Bible and (should, at least) believe that not a word should be added or removed, no matter if it is YHWH. I truly believe that reading the NT without all the 237 times "Jehovah" appears leads you to a totally different "Lord Jesus"... and here is where I get stuck with JW's because I am attacking a MAJOR doctrine of anti-trinity or anti-binitarianism.
2. The blood doctrine was the hardest thing for my father to accept. He spent years studying and would not come in because he feared having to face a decision of the blood doctrine. Now, however, he accepts it entirely. I think this would be an easier angle of attack, since, like you said, there is way more ammo for this one.
3. I know, who cares but JW's? However, there is much evidence that Jesus in fact died on a T-shaped cross, including my favorite which is the "Staurogram", it appears in the oldest manuscripts (p45, p66, p75) as a "Nomina Sacra"... if "stauros" starts with an S and ends with an S, logically an abbreviation such as the "Nomina Sacra" would be something like SS... but it is a T with the ρ (rho) on top... looking very much like a body on a cross... anyways, the reason for it being "an angle to use against JW's" is that it is in a manuscript, at some point the NWT committe must have seen this, but for obvious reasons never told the R&F. It's very damning of that doctrine.
4. With regards to the nature of Jesus/God, it really doesn't matter since I do not believe fully in the Bible anyways (agnostic like I said), all that I am saying is that a plain, simple reading of the NT without "Jehovah" inserted here and there will more likely end you with the conclusion "Jesus is God" than the conclusion "Jesus is NOT God"... that's the way I see it.
5. Agreed... the only "harmonization" of the texts is to say that both are needed. However, it is a pretty strong contradiction in my books. Romans 3 vs James 2
6. Dozens of them... the craziest ones are in Chronicles/Kings...
7. Only if I want to cast doubt on the Bible, yes...
I know that I cannot take all with me... It's a shame, a sadness, but it is something that I must come to terms with. I have found that I should place the burden of proof on THEM and not just spew out conclusions that I have reached with months of research. It will take massive doses of self-control. Can you give me samples of questions I should ask?
THANKS VERY MUCH!
...
To the rest... I will try to answer tomorrow. I am tired now...
I love TTATT ,
on the subject of Trinity I suggest reading the Early Church Fathers , Tertullian , Justyn Martyr , etc ,all who pre- date the Nicene Creed . Lots online about their works . NOT what is in the " Should you Believe " booklet .
Faith or works , I think that the Bible is clear , we are saved FOR good works prepared for us beforehand , we can do nothing to earn our salvation .
Welcome TTATTyhead
What really scares the crap out of me is the way people respond any time that I try and tell them TTATT
Yeah. Rotten aint it?!
They remind me of when you're having a lovely dream and you wake up yet attempt to go back into the dream to enjoy the fantasy rather than face the less pleasant reality.
Many will never wake up despite them being good thinking people. They are happier to remain in the Matrix.
Reality can be very hard to bear. No eternal life, just oblivion and non entity. No god above. We are all alone without a saviour. We WILL die, it's just when and how. We WON'T see our dead loved ones again..........and of course.........all those years wasted on a delusion.
Gosh punk , is it being so cheerful that keeps you going ?
jhine - Don't mind me I've just had enough. The shock of waking up to the real truth about life and added circumstances has me on a back foot.
I would love to be cheerful again but as it is my family is broken and I've spent more than 50 years in the watchtower(R) delusion..........I'm tired of life mate. Tired of bloody life and scum ridden people I see all around my city!
As a stubborn Brit I don't go for the therapy thing. I can't afford private treatment and the NHS Doctors just dish out happy pills......not my style.
