Proof of Noah's Flood - Presently watching a Documentary about Europe & the Ice Age (page 17)

cofty

adamah - I didn't say local flood myths weren't based in reality. People lived near rivers, rivers flood.

I said the myth of a global flood had no basis in reality.

Guys I've been thinking bout this a lot. The more I think the more sense a real flood makes. I once found a fossilized sea shell in Arkansas. So.... I'm converting to a believer in the global flood. From now on I'll have to argue on the side of the global flood.

mP

Coma:

Why does it have to be global ? Perhaps that sea shell was dropped by someone or the land just moved or maybe the sea creaped in ? There are many alternatives Noahs story just doesnt add up.

trailerfitter

Beats me how penguins, and Polar bears managed to travel so far to a hot country, survive out at sea then return back to their natural habitat not leaving any decendants anywhere en route..

adamah

cofty said-

I didn't say local flood myths weren't based in reality. People lived near rivers, rivers flood. I said the myth of a global flood had no basis in reality.

You actually said this:

There is zero evidence for a global flood. The bible story is a fairy tale with no basis in reality other than the unremarkable fact that many cultures have flood myths.

But either way, I think you're missing the point that it doesn't matter if the bible myth developed from a local flood or from a large puddle: myths have a way of growing in the enormity of their details with time, as that's the very nature of a myth (which is not confined by anything but people's imagination, eg Paul Bunyan's Tall Tales). I suspect the Genesis account WAS based on some initial flood event which inspired the older Sumerian accounts (perhaps following the last ice age, eg Black Sea hypothesis or the like), and had the story of a hero inserted into it, and that reverberated down through oral traditions of many cultures and ended up in the Hebrew flood account in Genesis.

And just because there's a kernel of truth, an event which inspired the myth, doesn't mean it proves the Biblical account: instead, it explains the myth's origins via natural (not supernatural) explanation, which is exactly why all the other oral traditions appeared: they were used by ancient men to explain natural phenomena that were observed, but not understood (eg rainbows, or in Lot's story of Sodom and Gomorrah, the desert appearance of the area when it was described as being a fertile area before, etc).

(Speaking of rainbows, you'd THINK the fact humans can explain their formation via naturalistic explanations, and even recreate one artificially with a garden hose on a sunny day without God making them appear, SHOULD be sufficient evidence enough to disprove the account. But NOPE. That's why I find it next to useless to argue about stories in the Bible which can be excused by claiming them as miracles: it's pointless to do so, since it's a 'get out of jail free' card for the believer.)

Comatose said-

Guys I've been thinking bout this a lot. The more I think the more sense a real flood makes. I once found a fossilized sea shell in Arkansas. So.... I'm converting to a believer in the global flood. From now on I'll have to argue on the side of the global flood.

Yeah, me too: there's all kinds of fossilized sharks teeth in Central CA, and they could ONLY get there by a global flood. I mean, what other option IS there?

trailerfitter said;

Beats me how penguins, and Polar bears managed to travel so far to a hot country, survive out at sea then return back to their natural habitat not leaving any decendants anywhere en route..

Youze just gotta believe, man! Jesus said so, so that's good enuf for me!

Adam

AndDontCallMeShirley

God's THE "Intelligent Designer". How trivial would it be to take a pre-existing virus and insert a deadly gene that kills all the humans

Couldn't a loving god just opt to have all of his flawed, "wicked" human creation just die peacefully in their sleep? That certainly would be more humane. However, such a reasonable, loving solution wouldn't enter the callous mind of the Bible writer who invented god and the Flood account, would it? God likes suffering, which reflects the mind of the god inventor.

I once found a fossilized sea shell in Arkansas. So.... I'm converting to a believer in the global flood.

Or, it could've been some California kids "lucky shell" that fell out of his pocket while he was on family vacation in Arkansas visiting Uncle Jeter.

Not as exciting but at least explainable without employing huge leaps of faith and logic-defying conundrums.

iCeltic

I'd say a loving God, if he created humans in the first, wouldn't want to kill them, peacefully or violently.

Comatose

Okay, but think about. "Smart people" will try to tell you that the earth is always changing and that millions or billions of years ago some land was under water and now it is out of water. That doesn't make any sense! Isn't it more logical to conclude that the flood placed that shell there? I'm trying to figure out how the coral and plant life survived. But, it's all making sense now.

adamah

After you get past explaining how Noah's Ark served as a floating nursery to hold all the exotic species of plant life that would need to be onboard for a year to survive, you also need to explain how the fresh water (lake) fish managed to survive in the higher-salinity conditions of water from the ocean, and how the salt-water ocean fish survived in the lower-salinity conditions due to the rain-water. Fish aren't generally tolerant of such dramatic changes in salinity.

Unless it's one more "God Dun It" excuses!

Shirley said-

However, such a reasonable, loving solution wouldn't enter the callous mind of the Bible writer who invented god and the Flood account, would it? God likes suffering, which reflects the mind of the god inventor.

Why go to the bother of starting a story from scratch, when the writer of the account had a perfectly-good flood story to rip off from Sumerian written and oral traditions? Change a few names here and there, and the story is easily modified to fit into the Torah! Who's going to know about ancient Sumerian myths? It's not like some smart archaeologists will dig 2,000 yrs later and FIND the other versions, right?

PS my personal favorite part of the account is when God says that He regretted making ALL life on Earth (man AND animals AND plants), when not even 5 chapters earlier, YHWH surveyed ALL of the work He had just completed, and declared it was "very good" (Genesis 1:26). So God not only isn't prescient (i.e. doesn't possess fore-knowledge of His future reactions and emotions), He's also apparently unable to judge the quality of His own work!

Adam

AndDontCallMeShirley

Adam: God says that He regretted making ALL life on Earth

...5 chapters earlier, YHWH surveyed ALL of the work He had just completed, and declared it was "very good"

God is so finicky. He can't come to grips with the fact that his creation merely reflects all-too-perfectly its creator (Him).

Since Genesis also says man is made in God's image, in addition to being "very good", what god doesn't have any tolerance for is the reflection He sees in the mirror.

comatose:

Isn't it more logical to conclude that the flood placed that shell there?

Why not Peter Pan? or the Tooth Fairy? Those smart people you refer to always come up with logical, scientific explanations. Comatose, you just need to learn to think like a 5 year-old child, or a fundamentalist. Life is so much easier when you dispose of rationality.

Proof of Noah's Flood - Presently watching a Documentary about Europe & the Ice Age

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