2013 Convention "Apostate talk" Refuted point by point

by Watchtower-Free 17 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Watchtower-Free
    Watchtower-Free

    I found this over at https://www.facebook.com/groups/xjwrg3 its the "Ex-Jehovah's Witness Recovery Group 3"

    Its by a member of this forum goes by the name "Toledo Squad" . Its well done . He said he sent it to the emails of 46 JWs .

    I have addressed each highlighted point because it is important, as a lover of truth, that you refute the unjustified slander made therein.

    1. human apostates are unruly men who cook up wicked reasoning and season their brew with poisonous lies that deceive minds. - Completely untrue. I can tell you first hand that i do not ''cook up wicked reasoning'' or ''season...with poisonous lies'' and i am not unruly. Nor do, or are, any 'human apostates' that i know.
    2. Their preference is to partake of falsehoods at the table of demons. - Incorrect. I do not believe in demons or in falsehood which is partly why i am no longer a JW.
    3. They deliberately decide to go out from among God's people - False. I was sorry for making my musings known, but could not apologise for how i was feeling. Hence, i was disfellowshipped. I did not ''deliberately decide to go''.
    4. Human apostates are part of the seed of the serpent spoken of in Genesis 3:15. - I am not part of any seed of any snake spoken of in the bible or any other myth-based set of 'holy' writings.
    5. Because apostates allow bitterness to take root in their heart, they become defiant of and false to the truth. - I have NOT allowed bitterness to take root and i am one of the most non-defiant, truthful people you will ever meet. I resent this statement.
    6. Apostates profess to be followers of Jesus, but are not obedient to his commands. - A massive generalisation and completely untrue in many, many cases. As an apostate who views Jesus as a man who may or may not have been a real person, i DEFINITELY do not profess to follow him or any other person.
    7. Rather than going out and making their own disciples, many apostates seek to draw away Christ's disciples after themselves. - I do not do this. Nor do i wish to have followers. Nor do any other apostates. This is a fallacy.
    8. they seek to draw away Christ's disciples after themselves and cause divisions. - Again, this is a lie. Some apostates are intent on doing what they see is 'God's work' by trying to draw people out of the organisation, but not to follow them!! They are doing exactly as JW members do, namely, warning people that they need to listen to THEIR version of the 'will of God' in order to save themselves. If this is a negative, bad thing, then you all better stop condemning 'false religion' and going from door to door!
    9. A third characteristic manifested by human apostates is they claim to serve Jehovah - Once again, a totally over-generalising statement. I am in utter amazement at the Governing Body sanctioning a statement like this, knowing full well as they do, that many apostates like me have left the organisation because we cannot understand how there could possibly even BE a Jehovah. I was disfellowshipped for 'Apostasy' and it clearly says on my 'eviction notice' that i could no longer accept that there was a caring god in the heavens. So again. A devious, manipulative and downright dishonest statement.
    10. They lie to authorities. Through the media they seek to discredit Jehovah's people and incite bans on our work. - A slanderous statement that bears no resemblance to any truth. In fact, all the people who have left the organisation that i have had dealings with, are VERY particular about not making stuff up. They check that things are correct when exposing the harmful policies of Watchtower Corporation. Of course, there is always the odd disgruntled person who may embellish a story or say something that isn't quite true about Jehovah's Witnesses. But this is the exception rather than the rule. 'Human Apostates', as we are termed, see no advantage in spreading lies. It does their credibility no good whatsoever to do so. I for one am not a liar and resent being called one by Watchtower's Governing Body.
    11. apostates falsely stated that Jehovah's witnesses supported Hitler's regime during world war two. - If anyone would like to see a copy of the letter J F Rutherford wrote to Hitler, please feel free to ask. You can decide for yourself whether or not 'apostates falsely stated' the situation at that time, or not. You will be surprised to find that Watchtower is, again, lying to you in an effort to scaremonger you into hating people like me.
    12. human apostate are mentally diseased and they try to infect others with their disloyal teachings. - I am NOT mentally diseased. Nor is any other person who decides that there cannot be a living, caring god of love. Nor is anyone who decides that the insertion of 'Jehovah' into the New Testament part of the NWT bible over 200 times when it was never there in the first place; or that 607BCE is NOT an accurate date on which to base fundamental prophecy, mentally diseased. They have come to a decision that Watchtower doctrine is wrong and they are right. This does not make them mentally diseased, any more than it makes the Governing Body mentally diseased for rejecting mainstream Christianity.
    13. Why then allow yourself to be sour, poisoned by anyone who would belittle the organization through which you learned these truths. - For the same reason someone leaves their religion to become a Jehovah's Witness! They had an open enough mind then. To close it now means one is arrogant enough to believe they have all the answers, when clearly, no one has all the answers.
    14. Apostates are not sincere in their expressions. Their aim is to manipulate your mind and undermine your faith - Another blatant lie being told from the platforms of the 'only true religion'. I am COMPLETELY sincere, as are all 'Human Apostates' i know. None do it for any other motive than to expose harm, point out false teachings and help others. If i have undermined faith through what i've said or done, then that is clearly a sign that faith is weak and nothing more than a stubborn tool for believing what one WANTS to believe. And as for 'manipulate your mind', this is like the pot calling the kettle black.
    15. apostates are part of the Anti-Christ. They are liars and deceivers, out to destroy your relationship with Jehovah God and his son Christ Jesus. - Happy to be known as ''anti-Christ'' of course. But VERY unhappy to be called a liar and a deceiver, yet again. Also, i am not out to "destroy your relationship with Jehovah God and his son Christ Jesus" or any other fantasy relationship you may have with any other deity or fairy story character, dead or otherwise.

    Please do not view me in the terms described. I realise i am to be treated as ''dead'' in your eyes, but at least do me the dignity of knowing that i am not the person your Governing Body wishes you to believe i am.

    This was quite literally the most dishonest diatribe from Watchtower HQ that i have witnessed during all my years as a JW and the years afterwards. I am sickened to the stomach by it and it is my intention to make you aware before you are subject to these lies and misrepresentations first hand, just what you will be hearing.

    If my atheistic overtones have upset you, i apologise. It is not my intention (despite the talk outline) to weaken your faith. But my shock at the words used in this talk have made me angry enough to want to defend my own character and also the vast majority of those who have conscientiously decided to withdraw from being Jehovah's Witnesses and desire to see former friends and family exit from this brainwashing cult. Also, i wanted to show you that the Governing Body have put together a string of lies and wholesale generalisations that mislead and are disingenuous towards good people who no longer subscribe to Watchtower doctrines.

    I don't expect any of you will respond. I just hope you will see how manipulated you are to believe this ill conceived and vile hatred coming from a group of men who clearly have no qualms when it comes to slandering people.

    (Below is the full transcript with a link to the audio at the end)

    Regards

    Beware of Human Apostates

    You cannot be partaking at the table of Jehovah and the table of demons. These inspired words of the apostle Paul found at 1 Corinthians 10:21 show that two figurative tables are set before us. For the last day-and-a-half, you have been partaking at the table of Truth of Jehovah and haven't you found it to be good? [clapping]. Jehovah uses human representatives, the faithful and appointed elders to dispense truths for those eating at his table. The apostate Satan disseminates falsehoods in a similar way. He mimics Jehovah by using human representatives. Who are they? If Satan and his demons are chefs in his evil kitchen then human apostates are his helpers. Wicked humans imitate the original apostate Satan. Like Satan,human apostates are unruly men who cook up wicked reasoning and season their brew with poisonous lies that deceive minds. Human apostates have sat at the table of Jehovah. At Jehovah's table they enjoyed a table of well-oiled dishes, a banquet of wine kept on the grapes; they were domestics, part of the household of faith and partook of Bible truth, prepared and dispensed by the faithful steward, the Governing Body. But they pushed away from the table of Jehovah. Their preference is to partake of falsehoods at the table of demons. This action of pushing themselves away from the table of Jehovah is described for us at 1 John 2: 19 (They went out of us, for they were not of our sort...).

    Apostates do not drift away from the truth. They deliberately decide to go out from among God's people because they are not our sort. Human apostates are part of the seed of the serpent spoken of in Genesis 3:15. If we wish to please Jehovah we cannot sit as his table and at the same time be nibbling at the table of demons, eating from the hands of Satan's helpers, human apostates.

    So, for the next few minutes we are going to discuss how to identify human apostates and what you must do to protect yourself from the poison of apostasy. Let's first discuss how to identify human apostates. Apostasy often starts with prideful rejection of counsel and escalates into bitterness and jealousy - James 3:14. Because apostates allow bitterness to take root in their heart, they become defiant of and false to the truth. How does this defiance to the truth manifest itself. The actions of apostates bear three characteristics. These characteristics help us identify human apostates.

    The first identifying mark of human apostates is commented on at Luke 6: 46 (Why call me Lord, but not do the things I say). Apostates profess to be followers of Jesus, but are not obedient to his commands. A recent example of when this happened was in the mid-70's when some prominent elders, some who even served at Bethel felt it was below their dignity to witness from house to house, proclaiming the message as commanded by Jesus. They urged others to take it easy because the humble work of witnessing from house to house work was not necessary or unscriptural. The Governing Body expelled the unrepentant apostates from the organization. The faithful slave did not allow the efforts of these apostates to distract it from the primary work of Jehovah's witnesses, proclaiming God's word of truth. So the first characteristic we can use to identify human apostates is that they reject God's service. Many bock at Jesus' command to go and make disciples.

    A second characteristic that identifies human apostates is commented on at Acts 20:30 (men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples for themselves). What is it that apostates want? Most are not content to simply leave the faith they once viewed as true. They want to take others with them. Rather than going out and making their own disciples, many apostates seek to draw away Christ's disciples after themselves. Like a kidnapper who carries an unsuspecting victim away from his family, apostates prey upon trusting members of the congregation, seeking to carry them away from the flock. In addition they seek to cause divisions in the congregation - 2 Peter 2:1 (false teachers who quietly bring in destructive sects). To accomplish their goal of drawing away disciples after themselves or dividing the congregation, apostates may use smooth talk on the internet, on television or through letters to loyal witnesses of Jehovah. So a second characteristic that identifies human apostates is that they seek to draw away Christ's disciples after themselves and cause divisions.

    A third characteristic manifested by human apostates is they claim to serve Jehovah, yet they reject his representatives - 3 John 9-10 (does not receive anything from us with respect, using wicked words). Apostates claim to serve God, but reject his representatives. They lie to authorities. Through the media they seek to discredit Jehovah's people and incite bans on our work. For instance, in one country a news report instigated by apostates falsely stated that Jehovah's witnesses supported Hitler's regime during world war two. In other countries apostate used the media to accuse Jehovah's witnesses of refusing to give medical treatment to their children and of deliberately condoning serious sins committed by fellow believers. So a third characteristic that identifies human apostates is that they reject and try to discredit Jehovah's representatives here on earth.

    Now that we know how to identify human apostates, what must we do to protect ourselves from the poison of apostasy? Romans 16:17 (keep your eye on those causing stumble and avoid them).

    Suppose a doctor told you to avoid contact with someone who was infected with a contagious deadly disease. Would you reason that limited contact is okay? Similarly human apostate are mentally diseased and they try to infect others with their disloyal teachings. Jehovah, the great physician tells us to avoid contact with them.

    What is involved in avoiding apostates? 2 John 10-11 (never receive him into your home or say a greeting, not to become sharers in their wickedness). Avoiding apostates means we will not allow them in our homes, reading their literature, watching TV programs that feature them, examining their websites or adding our comments to their blogs. Why do we take such a firm stand? We do not want to become sharers in their wicked works. We love the God of Truth. We are not interested in twisted teachings that contradict God's word of truth.

    We love Jehovah's organization, the organization that taught us thrilling truths. Truths about Jehovah's name and its meaning. God's purpose for the earth. The condition of the dead and the hope of the resurrection. Can you recall how you felt when you first learned these and other precious truths. Why then allow yourself to be sour, poisoned by anyone who would belittle the organization through which you learned these truths.

    Does avoiding apostates imply that our faith is not strong enough to discern truth from falsehood? That our faith is not strong enough to discuss different views? Not at all. In our ministry we discuss with those who have different views. Apostates differ from those we meet in our ministry. Apostates are not sincere in their expressions. Their aim is to manipulate your mind and undermine your faith - Psalm 12:2 (untruth they keep speaking). With good reason the Bible then tells us to avoid apostates, just as we would avoid a person who was infected with a deadly contagious disease - 1 John 2:18-19 (many Anti-Christ's that went out from us).

    Because they oppose the truth, apostates are part of the Anti-Christ. They are liars and deceivers, out to destroy your relationship with Jehovah God and his son Christ Jesus. Therefore we want to avoid them for they are not of our sort. Deuteronomy 32:46-47 (apply you hearts to all the words I am speaking and warning; it means your life).

    Heeding his inspired warnings means our very life. How thankful we are for divine warnings against apostasy. May we show our appreciation by walking in God's word of Truth. May we stay busy in the work Jesus assigned us to do; Sharing God's word of Truth with others. By doing so, you will forever enjoy Jehovah's divine seal of approval.

    2013 Symposium - Beware of Apostates!

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff

    Nice point by point

  • factfinder
    factfinder

    Thank you for sharing this.

    The gb have intense hatred for anyone not accepting their word as the word of Jehovah himself,and any who do not believe that they are the faithful & discreet slave

    as well as

    any who stop attending meetings. I also resent the accusations that the gb would have people think of me when such accusations are entirely false. My brother & sister-in-law do not reply to my letters or answer my calls because I do not attend meetings.

    Yet at no time have I ever tried to discourage them from pioneering and continuing as jws. Nor have I ever tried to get them to believe different teachings.

    Yet this hateful talk implies that everyone who stops attending meetings for any reason at all (I became discouraged and became inactive) is an uruley, vile, bitter servent of Satan, part of the anti-Chist.

    I hope that some who attend the convention and hear this will recognize the hatred this arrogant self-appointed gb has for everybody who does not blindly worship and obey them.

    Unfortunatly my brother and his wife are so programmed to obey everything from the gb that they have lost the ability to think and reason.

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    Good write up

    Actually many so called apostates are simply trying to get at the truth at the most sincere and intelligent approach.

    The WTS. heads don't like that because it infringes on their power and control and thats why they go about

    demonising these people.

    But then again thats pretty much with every religion.

    don't mess with the product or else.

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    Excellent; I hope it get a wide circulation!

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    In reality if you were to honestly evaluate the WTS. and its professed doctrines over the years using the bible

    as a source of guidance you would come to the conclusion that this organization is in fact an organization of deceiving lies

    and corruption, described by god as manifestations of the devil and should be avoided to actually be approved by him.

  • Watchtower-Free
  • problemaddict
    problemaddict

    Not so much a "refute" point by point as it is a "disagree" point by point.....but I get it. Good on him for being incensed about it and having the courage to send this to others.

  • JakeM2012
    JakeM2012

    Thanks WF

  • Captain Obvious
    Captain Obvious

    On the way to the DC that morning I warned my wife that there was a talk about people like me. Even the. She refused to agree that I'm an apostate. I told her to think of the many thousands of people like me who simply in good conscience cannot be an active part of this religion. I told her about how to spot an ad hominem attack, and why it's a sign of a false argument from someone who has something to hide. Since then I haven't said a word about it... I'll let it brew a bit, then bring up some of these quotes to see her opinion.

    Thanks for the write up!

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