Ouija Board!!!

by XPeterX 92 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Seraphim23

  Jeffro, well there you go, he thinks there is a connection between quantum mechanics and consciousness and yes he is a materialist is his view like any good atheist. By the way, I am not saying either that conciseness exists at the quantum level, in fact I don’t think I have ever said that, so I am not sure why your reading that into what I am saying? I am saying that quantum mechanics seems to be implicated along with the fact there is a gap between classical and quantum explanations of the universe. Not just a small gap either but a huge gapping one where Penrose thinks that non computability would have manifestations in the universe from. Guess what a theory is that cannot be computed or placed into an algorithm? He is an atheist true, which I am not, yet he also apparently thinks the universe has a purpose, which has more in common with a theist when you think about it.

  My point is quite simple here, if the criticism of believers is that they are dogmatic and ignore evidence in favour of thinking they know it all, even though there version of reality has not been established beyond doubt, then it seems that many an atheist are doing the exact same in a different form; the God of the gaps with theists, and with atheists it’s the God of ever expanding definitions of science. Of course a very good argument can be made that God and science should have strict definitions applied to them that are so rigid they cannot evolve as human comprehension evolves, but then something else must if they won’t, so why not call them God and science? but that’s a rabbit I won’t chase for now.
• 

  Jeffro

  Seraphim23:

  Jeffro, well there you go, he thinks there is a connection between quantum mechanics and consciousness and yes he is a materialist is his view like any good atheist. By the way, I am not saying either that conciseness exists at the quantum level, in fact I don’t think I have ever said that, so I am not sure why your reading that into what I am saying?

  In other words, your comments have no relevant context whatsoever.

  But your attempts to generalise your comments in your latest response contradicts the original intention indicated in your post at the top of this page.
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  Seraphim23

  Scientists use others academic work all the time to lend general support to their own views that are not the same as the academic whose work they are using. So I don’t agree. My views at the top were quite general to start with. Roger Penrose wouldn’t include belief into the mix as I would but he does acknowledge a gap between quantum and classical explanations of reality they may help explain not only the phenomena of consciousness, but much else as well that currently goes against a common sense view of the world. Where there is a gap in understanding the nature of reality in science, there is the ability to be open minded about exotic experiences people purport to witness or experience including Ouija boards. My own views go way beyond a material gap but that in not what I am arguing here. I am arguing for open mindedness to the extent to which science doesn’t explain things yet.
• 

  Jeffro

  Seraphim23:

  Where there is a gap in understanding the nature of reality in science, there is the ability to be open minded about exotic experiences people purport to witness or experience including Ouija boards.

  That might be true if there were any evidence that any purported 'experience' with Ouija™ boards ever actually happened. Back in reality, there's just well-explained phenomena and second-hand stories. There's absolutely no need for 'reaching' for 'exotic' explanations.
• 

  punkofnice

  To those who don't believe in this shyt:You'd better not post here

  
• 

  Seraphim23

  Well frankly Jeffro I am not prepared to dismiss as easily as you some of the more exotic supernatural experiences so many people including some atheists admit to experiencing or witnessing. In part it is due to seeing some strange stuff myself.

  Witness evidence is a valid form of evidence which has to be carefully processed of course, because any old made up thing would be believed otherwise, which is obviously not sensible. However not enough serious attention is given to witness testimony of this sort, from either atheists, or my fellow Christians! Believing what another, or a group of others say or not, depends on many things which needs better treatment that simply something along the lines of `I don’t want to take you seriously because it doesn’t fit with my world view`. You don’t have to become a believer in God in order to question the current definitions of science, or go beyond mere physics. Just because the scientific approach works for physical things doesn’t mean there is no evidence for nonphysical things. It is not going to be scientific evidence by definition because science currently limits itself to the physical and that is because it is practical to do so. Why? Because we are limited and dependent on a physical universe but that doesn’t mean that is all there is to reality.
• 

  Bungi Bill

  Kojack57,

  I have heard various versions of the "Ouija board being asked what was going to happen in 1975, and it flew off the table / exploded / burned down the building etc. etc. etc." story - to the point that I wonder if it is in the same category as that other JW urban legend:

  i.e. the one about the pioneer sister who was spared the attentions of a serial murderer by the "Two Large Men" standing behind her - a pair of body guards who were invisible to her, but not to the guy she was talking to! (supposedly).

  Bill
• 

  caliber

  To those who don't believe in this shyt:You'd better not post here

  Man , there sure were a lots of believers here I guess !! hahahahaha
• 

  friendaroonie

  I have spent endless hours on that thing and it never moved. And there are scientific reasons for what is spelled out by the person who is holding the planchette. Also, supposedly, you are never supposed to use the board alone. Why is that? Because, statistically, when there are two or more people holding the planchette, something like 70% of the time, one of the two people will look the other straight in the eye and say "I swear to God I am not moving it." And a large percentage of those people out of gleeful delight will take that secret to their grave.

  There was a movie with Marisa Tomei and Robert Downet Jr., can't remember the name, but the premise of the movie was that the lead actress was told when she was a child playing with a Ouija board that she would fall in love with a man named Norman Goldstein or something like that. So she is getting married and having cold feet so she decides to look up this name, Norman Goldstein and somehow ends up going to Italy to meet him. Then at the end of the movie her brother, all these years later, admits to moving the planchette to spell out that name when they were kids. He just made up the name.

  My point is that people, and I am one of those people, can pull those kind of tricks on their friends, and they may even keep the joke going for decades and get laugh every time the object of the joke brings it up. My brother Danny told a lie when he was 8 years old and it became a story our family loved to retell cuz it was so funny. He never wanted to spoil the fun so over 30 years later it is still told at our family get-togethers. He finally told me about 10 years and he made me swear to never tell.

  The Ouija board is just fertile ground for that kind of joking around when more than one person is using it. When one person is using it, there is a whole different psychological thing going on where you start moving it on your own to just one letter, or you imagine someone in your head is telling you "W" then you start getting random thoughts that get more and more specific. Pretty soon it becomes a sort of therapy session with yourself , and secrets come out and get spelled out.

  There are many kinds of Ouija boards that are more logical in how the alphabet is graphically designed, like one where the most common english letters are more in the center and less used letters like x and z are on the outsiede. this makes much more sense. When the alphabet is A-Z, you tend to hit some letters like X or z, that really don't come up in language that much, thereforte your movements are biased towards those particular rarely used letters. So naturally, subjects that start with or feature these rarely used letters come up more often than they do in real life.
• 

  Jeffro

  Seraphim23:

  Well frankly Jeffro I am not prepared to dismiss as easily as you some of the more exotic supernatural experiences so many people including some atheists admit to experiencing or witnessing. In part it is due to seeing some strange stuff myself.

  If you want to believe in ghosts and demons and leprechauns, go for it. It's still irrational.