by bytheirworks 21 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Ray Franz was not disfellowshipped for apostasy. He was disfellowshipped for eating with a disassociated one. And that was a retroactive rule- one they invented after the violation.
I don't think they will retroactively undo retroactive DF'S nor any others. I mean, they have DF'ED in the past and changed the rules but said the people erred still DF'ED for running ahead of the chariot.
"Evil slave" and "apostate" are overlapping but not coextensive terms. You can be an apostate without being of the "evil slave" class. I can't see why that shouldn't apply to the new understanding as much as the old one.
July 15th, 2013 Watchtower "Noo Lite"
So IF the "Evil Slave" individually or as a class can ONLY emerge from the FDS aka (based on "noo lite") the GB from 1919 onwards, is the WBTS leaving room for a "cop out" "scape goat" for past errors that came from the "evil slave" within the FDS or anticipate a split in leadership in the future as the 1914 run way can NOT be stretched any further. .?
The WBTS don't throw out unnessary statements like that without a motive up their sleeve !
Comments, outbursts, anyone ?
Shalom:)
Notice the title of this topic: All "Apostasy Disfellowshippings" Overturned?
The term apostate is thrown around willy nilly, but the meaning of apostasy is in the VOCALIZING.
Every single jw has internal doubts about the organization.
When those internal doubts become overwhelming, the jw will write a disassociation letter and leave. The paperwork to Bethel would state: "Disassociated."
However, sadly many jw VOICE their doubts and griefs to close jw friends & family. This is considered "beating their fellow slaves" via "foolish questionings" that "cause divisions." This is when the charge of apostasy is handed out. The paperwork to Bethel would state: "Apostasy - Disfellowshipped"
Currently, all persons (disA or disF) are still treated the same as apostates. Nevertheless, Bethel (still having that "Apostasy-Disfellowshipped" paperwork) should still overturn those descisions & contact those ones in an effort to heal the wound.
Bytheirworks **** Notice the title of this topic: All "Apostasy Disfellowshippings" Overturned. ***
I wish that was the case so families would not be torn apart. However, as others have said in this thread, being labelled "apostate" is NOT solely based on being an "evil slave type" as they are labeling anyone who leaves as "apostate" and "mentally diseased. "
Shalom :)
When those internal doubts become overwhelming, the jw will write a disassociation letter and leave.
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Any JW who disassociates themselves will be treated as an apostate, whether that label has been officially attached to them or not. Disassociation has precisely the same end result as being disfellowshipped-complete shunning. Anyone who leaves, whether by fading or disassociation, is considered an enemy.
In the current mindset of JWs, having any doubts about the organization's leadership, decisions, policies or doctrines is considered either outright apostasy or bordering on it. Apostasy has become synonymous with any questions/doubts, no matter how sincere they may be.
The GB will NEVER overturn Df'ings. Even it you were preaching the noo-lite)tm 1 year ago, before it was current-lite (tm), and you were DF'd for saying there was no slave "class", they still would not overturn it. So much for seeking out the lost sheep..
If the FDS not a class, but a collective ( just a smaller class in reality. GEEZE they are dumb), does that mean the evil slave is no longer a class? The sad thing is this, it doesn't matter as far as changing the ORG. It will never change, it must crash and burn. We may, however, help individuals to use their power of reason and get free.
I asked an Elder if the WTBTS would go and seek out all those were said a teaching was wrong in the past, but are now proven correct by current understanding. He said, " They should." Did they? No. Anyway the FDS thing is a parable, not a prophecy.
Shouldn't disfellowshipping (according to WT theology) be exacted on annointed christians only? How is the other sheep disciplined according to what the NT scriptures say if it was not intended for them?
Data-Dog: The GB will NEVER overturn Df'ings.
Well, who is it that does do the disfellowshiping?
In another thread, I pointed out that the ancient apostles held the “keys of the kingdom,” which carried the authority to bind or loose on Heaven or Earth. So, unless the Governing Body of the Jehovah's Witnesses has those same keys, they can’t bind or loose anything. They can bind and it won’t be bound and can loose (cut off, or disfellowship) and it won’t be loosed. And if they can’t do it, the elders certainly can’t do it, else how did they receive the keys?
So if you’ve been disfellowshiped, fear not. I was going to send the Organization, which ought to be called the “Outfit,” an e-mail asking about these keys of authority and surprise, surprise! You click the “E-mail” icon and it takes you back to the postal address page. *Sigh!*
If these precious keys of authority were important enough to be specifically mentioned in holy writ, then why does the WTBTS completely ignore them?
Blondie, if you’re monitoring this, can you find me anything in the literature?
Emery: Shouldn't disfellowshipping (according to WT theology) be exacted on anointed Christians only? How is the other sheep disciplined according to what the NT scriptures say if it was not intended for them?
The act of cutting off someone from the church—and I’m not sure the Jehovah's Witnesses view themselves as a church—is something that must happen both in Heaven and Earth. If not, then what’s the point? The question is, when a body of elders cuts one off, does Yahweh recognize it? Even if one, for the sake of argument, completely discounts the keys as being theologically significant, if it’s not recognized by Yahweh, the great judge of mankind (John 5:22), then being cut off is not binding and thus not to be feared.
The Governing Body, if I understand it correctly, is simply a subset of an elite ruling body that will be appointed kings and priests and rule over the “great crowd” in the hereafter. Strange that elders who are likely to be of the more pedestrian group should be able to cut off those who theoretically could make his life on Paradise Earth a bit more difficult.
I’m also unsure how the anointed class relates to angels. Will they be of similar ranks, superior or inferior? Whatever they are, if their doctrines hold true, the Governing Body is really no better or worse than their anointed brothers. And we all know that the anointed class was once the faithful and discreet slave (after J. Rutherford had been identified as such). All it takes is one really ambitious GB member and the title can fall to him as he claims new light, or perhaps claims to see an angel!
So it all comes back to authority, and if anyone is bold enough, ask an elder where he and his quorum get the authority to cut anyone off from the rest of the flock. Sure, the ancient saints had that authority, but then, they also held the binding powers of Heaven and Earth.
The Searcher: Therefore, accepting the WTBTS interpretation of Matthew 24:45-47 as correct, earthly-hopers cannot become evil slave members, because by definition, only "faithful slaves" can become "evil slaves" according to Jesus’ words!!!!!
Playing the devil’s advocate, just because “earthly hopers” cannot become evil slaves doesn’t mean they can’t be condemned and destroyed by Yahweh at his coming. If you’re a potential member of the “great crowd,” you can still be cut off and condemned even though you’re not of the anointed class. That said, I firmly believe there’s no such thing as two classes of resurrected beings. The Jehovah's Witnesses is the only group that believes this doctrine. I also find them disfellowshiping someone simply because of what they believe, and not just what they do, is abhorrent.
