how do we know when we interpretate correctly? (page 2)

JosephAlward

Dungbeetle asks,

Now, can anyone find a Greek Septuagent anywhere online by any chance?

The Septuagint will be of no help with 1 Corinthians 6:9; if you want to see the Greek for that passage, here it is, from the Blue Letter Bible:

Eido ou hoit adikos kleronomea ou kleronomeo basileia theos?...[Oute] pornos oute eidololatres oute moichos oute malakos.
I know you don't want to look at the English translation, Dungbeetle, but I'll provide it for those who are not as Greek-capable are you are:
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate.(1 Corinthians 6:9)

The word malakos appears four times in the Bible; three of the times it refers to softness of clothes; the other time it is appears in this passage, referring to an effeminate person, one who is soft is the feminine sense, in other words, gay.

Thus, it is clear that Paul is claiming that homosexual men will not enter the basileia theos (kingdom of God).

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

simwitness

JA,

I have read many of your recent posts, and have found many of them to be thought provoking, and generally well argued by yourself. However, this seems a bit of a stretch.

The word malakos appears four times in the Bible; three of the times it refers to softness of clothes; the other time it is appears in this passage, referring to an effeminate person, one who is soft is the feminine sense, in other words, gay.
Thus, it is clear that Paul is claiming that homosexual men will not enter the basileia theos (kingdom of God).

"Soft in the Feminine sense = homosexual" ?? And you make that leap by 3 other places where it refers to soft clothes?

I have not looked up the surrounding text for a complete contextual view, but it seems to me that if we are to "clothe ourselves in christ" then this could very well be reffering to one that is "weak" or "soft" in spirit as well.

just my 2 cents, no change expected!

BeautifulGarbage

I know of many gay men that ARE NOT effeminate. One would never know they are gay, because they are "straight acting" (not my term, folks, got it from hubby's guy friend, who is gay).

Actually, I know some women who aren't effeminate, either.

Andee

dungbeetle

So the best way to assure oneself of a future heavenly abode is to starch your clothes?

JosephAlward

Andee writes,

I know of many gay men that ARE NOT effeminate.

Until recently, in their naivete, most people thought all homosexuals were outwardly effeminate; Paul was likely more naive than even the most naive among us, given the time in which he lived. Thus, to him, all homosexuals were effeminate; he was wrong, of course, but he was wrong about God having condemned women to a position of subservience, too.

simwitness writes,

Soft in the Feminine sense = homosexual" ?? And you make that leap by 3 other places where it refers to soft clothes?

I mentioned the soft clothes only to help explain how in the world malakos clothes could be consistent with a malakos man, which is translated as "effeminate" in the 1 Corinthians passage. The principal word used for "effeminate" in Greek is malakos. To confirm this, go to the site at

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/enggreek?lang=greek

and enter the word "effeminate." You will find that the overwhelming most common Greek word used to represent "effeminate" is malakos.

Dungbeetle,

There is no way around the fact that the Bible teaches that homosexuality is to be condemned. Just as feminists have been struggling to convince themeselves that their Bible and their god wants them to be church deacon and to lead men, so do homosexuals who love their Bible and their god want to believe that their god approves of homosexual practices. Few teachings in the Bible are more clear than those which teach that women are inferior to men, and homosexuality is to be condemned. Paul teaches that homosexuals will not go to heaven, and there's just no getting around that. One must either accept that the Bible is wrong--which I believe it is, or else one must accept that homosexuals won't go to heaven.

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

RWC

Joseph, I can't believe it, but for once we agree. The Bibl does indeed teach that homosexuality is a sin against God. It is condemned. That does not mean that two men or two women cannot have a nonsexual loving relationship. Those who try to find support for a sexual same sex realtionship in the Bible are adding to the text or ignoring its plain teaching. See 1 Cor. 6:9. That does not mean that those who havge practiced homosexuality or any other sexual immorality that is considered a sin will forever be barred from Heaven. If they repent and accept Jesus as their savior they can be sanctified and enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. See again 1 Cor. 6:9.

Don't get too excited Joesph, I am sure our agreement on this teaching is a rare event.

evangelist

Hello Adonai
thank you for your reply and I like what you said:

quote Adonai
Well....... I don't know abbout what Imbue says about ya....I don't know ya.
Evangelist on TV doesn't neccessarily mean money is involved. TV is a communication medium every market uses so why not the church or relgion too....That would be discrimination and censorship to say religion shouldn't be allowed on TV. Not all TV evangelsts are con artists or looking for money. Their are tons of evangelsits that don't but you don't hear about them .

This is very true and I am one evangelist that don`t recieve any money for my broadcast because it is payed throught the city I live in.
The TV broadcast is like a channel 2 program that reaches only 84000 homes and it onjly for my town. It just a way to reach the lost in my town and I have great numbers of people becoming born again christian.

I was hoping someone will say something about water baptism doctrine that saves according to M'r:16:16: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

I am sorry to here so many people on this board think that the bible is not the real Word of God , and it is full of mistakes, and err.
I think my God is more powerful than any man and he can make sure no one can destroy His Words.2Tm:3:16: (All scripture) is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Notice the bible says all scriptures, not some scriptures.

Once again thank you very much for your help and greeting me to the board.

God Bless you
Evanangelist
Proverb:4:7: Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

Adonai438

okay-peoples- I didn't know there were more replys to this topic but I'l be back to answer the questions asked to me soon

JosephAlward

There are other politically incorrect teachings in the Bible besides the one on homosexuality; women's rights advocates have struggled mightily over the past few years to make it seem that the god of the Bible held women in as high esteem as men, but their fight is larely in vain. Few teachings in the Bible are clearer than the one that holds that man was intended to be the head of the woman, and that man's judgement in all matters is superior to that of women. I'll raise this issue in a separate thread.

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

evangelist

It also says that we do not need a teacher to tell us what it says.

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Adonai438, Where might I find this passage?

Hello Simwitness
I think I can help because this is one of my favorite verses

1Jo:2:27: But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

how do we know when we interpretate correctly?

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