Imitate Their Faith - Reference & Comments (page 2)

Comatose

I enjoyed reading about Noah's fabricated preaching campaign that never happened.

Bobcat

Page 4, par. 3:

"Of course, at the time of the resurrection of . . . the righteous." that kind of rewarding relationship will be fully possible. (Acts 24:15)

This sentence caught my attention because it seems to refer to the resurrection as a future event. The reason this is interesting to me is because it was Paul saying this, and prefacing it with the words, "I (i. e. Paul) have hope towards God 'that there will be this resurrection of righteous and unrighteous.'

Paul seems to include himself as hoping to benefit from this resurrection. Yet Paul believed he would be in heaven with Christ. WT dogma holds that this part of the resurrection (the heavenly one) has already begun. So it is curious that they ignore this aspect of Acts 24:15.

I've mentioned this before and only got puzzled faces. It seems (at least to me) that the WT wants to reserve Acts 24:15 solely for an earthly resurrection.

Bobcat

Page 10, par. 5, footnote.

It reads:

The expression "the founding of the world" involves the idea of casting down seed, suggesting procreation, so it has to do with the earliest human offspring. Why, though, did Jesus connect Abel with "the founding of the world" and not Cain, who was the first such offspring? Cain's decisions and actions amounted to a willful rebellion against Jehovah God. Like his parents, Cain does not appear to be in line for resurrection and redemption.

[End of quote]

Ah! Shades of Sodom and Gomorrah. Will they be resurrected or won't they. I'm really surprised they haven't learned from this. But I digress.

Is Abel really associated with the "foundation of the world," as opposed to Cain? Here is a brief 'word study" of the term "foundation" (katabole, Strong's # 2602) as it relates to the "world" (kosmos).

It occurs in:

Mat 13:35 Quote from Ps 78:2, "long ago"

Mat 25:34 Kingdom prepared from. Would seem to associate with Gen 3:15, before Cain or Abel.

Luk 11:50 Footnote is based on this verse.

But the verse is talking about martyrs (Abel being the first), not who was first in "the founding of the world."

Jhn 17:24 Jesus loved by Father before the "founding of the world."

Eph 1:4 Christians foreordained before the founding of the world. Also seems to be linked to Gen 3:15.

At any rate, that would place "before the founding of the world" prior to either Cain or Abel.

Heb 4:3 Places "founding of the world after Adam & Eve created, but before children arrived.

Heb 9:26 Links "founding of the world" with introduction of sin.

1Pe 1:20 Also seems to be an allusion to Gen 3:15, as a point in time "before the founding of the world."

Rev 13:8, 17:8 with reference to the "scroll of life . . . from the founding of the world."

Incidentally, I analysed the 'scrolls of life' verses mentioned in Revelation here.

A comparison of these verses, none of them link Abel (as opposed to Cain) as the specific starting point of "the founding of the world." Luke 11:50, the only one that mentions Abel, only mentions him as one who was killed near "the founding of the world," not as the starting point for it.

Both BDAG and AMG's Greek-English Dictionary associate "founding" with the word "beginning." (BDAG also has some extra-Biblical examples linking it to the idea of "beginning.") None of the verses above give enough information that would allow a person to reasonably associate "the founding of the world" with Abel, as opposed to Cain.

Without predicting whether Cain would be resurrected or not, a counter argument could be mounted via John 5:28, 29, which describes those in the "memorial tombs" as including "those who practiced vile things." (The Society holds that these "vile things" get practised after they are resurrected. The verb tenses in the verses argue otherwise, that is, before they are resurrected.)

Bobcat

Page 6, par. 11

. . . Through Jehovah's organization, you are invited to expand your ministry in some way. Perhaps you are asked to move to a territory where there is an urgent need for more preachers, . . .

This was a curious way of putting this idea: "Perhaps you are asked to move to a territory . . ."

I wonder how intentional was this wording? Most times people volunteer to 'move where the need is great,' after becoming aware of the 'need.'

tornapart

Thanks for starting this Bobcat. We've got the new book at home and I intend to read it. These days I can never read any WT publication without questioning it or reading between the lines. There may be some interesting things in it but nothing they write can be taken at face value.

At least I can tell all my JW family (who know of my doubts) that I've read it. I've always been a reader and especially of history. I read the proclaimers book from cover to cover and felt quite shocked and surprised at the time, of all the WT history. Maybe that was the beginning of my 'awakening' so to speak. Not many JWs have read it all the way through. They should.

QC

bttt

jhine

I only know the Noah story as it was read during a study between aJW and a friend of mine which I sometimes sit in on . The mesage about keeping faithful when being laughed at and NOT being listened to was so obvious . I think that around here certainly not many people are listening to the Witnesses even though they are told that they are God's organisation , this must be so hard when they spend so much time going from door to door and so demoralising . So Noah's example of keeping faith even in the face of so much opposition must be a gift to the org . Also the message of keep on trusting us or you do not get into the ark was (not so ) subtly pushed .

If the others carry the same level of subconcious mind control then the writing dept has done a good job .

Bobcat

Thread on the book being printed in Germany. See here.

Imitate Their Faith - Reference & Comments

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