Proof the bible was NOT inspired by god.

by Comatose 22 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Comatose

  One of the first things I did when I was trying to face my doubts about the bibles inspiration was to read it. As JWs we are always told to read daily, but you can't get much sense of context or continuity when you read a chapter or two a day. So, I knew if I was going to give up on the religion and/or the bible it would only be after I had actually read and researched. The NT was read by me in just a couple weeks. I really poured myself into doing it. There are many inconsistencies in it, but for me the proof that it was not inspired came in what would be the most important verses in the entire bible.

  God literally speaking has to be the most important verses in the bible. God speaking about his son's baptism and heard by others? Again, even more important!

  So, were the bible writers present at Jesus baptism? It does not appear to me they were. (But, it doesn't impact this point either way.) With the writers of the book not being there, then Holy Spirit would have to inspire them to record what god said at that most special baptism.

  Each bible account is different...

  God if he were literally guiding what was being written would have ensured something as monumental as him speaking at his sons baptism was correct. But, he didn't. It's recorded completely different. In one account he speaks personally to his son. He commends and praises him in an endearing way. In another he speaks to the crowds as if to tell them the truth, or convince them. When you consider the fact that the single most important verses in the bible are different, then how could the hand of god have been guiding and inspiring the bible?

  Then I read the accounts of Jesus death. Jesus the ransom sacrifice's last words! Completely different. Different words, different emotions, different in every way.

  I'll never forget how I felt when I realized this.
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  Ding

  What prevents all the reported statements having been made and different writers reporting the ones that seemed most signficant to them?
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  Comatose

  The writers were not there. When he died he died alone. So we need to know by holy spirit what happened. His statement that showed him in utter peace and calm during death in Luke is in stark contrast with the anguish and sadness in Mark. They are polar opposites. They don't fit with both being said. The same is also true for the baptism in a smaller way. But his death last words prove they were not both said. Read all the accounts and see what I mean. Luke shows him calm and peaceful, a lamb willingly and happily sacrificing himself. In Luke Jesus is at peace and a great example for christians of how to die in peace as a martyr. Mark shows him abandoned, alone, forlorn, and despised. Mark shows his last words and thoughts were sad and tortured. They can't have both happened if you read the accounts.
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  adamah

  The different accounts are contradictory in mood and provide differing specific details, since authors at the time weren't concerned with reporting factual accounts (like modern-day reporters), but stressing a certain message, where each account contains details that are offered to fulfill a specific doctrinal point. Eg the account of the last-minute salvation of the thief is a demonstration of the parable of the owner of the vineyard, where the owner has the right to reward Johhny Latelys with the same 'pay' as those who put in a full day's labor. Same with Jesus' uttering "it is fulfilled" as his last words, a reference to the earlier words about 'not a word from the Torah becoming invalid until it (i.e. his 'mission' on Earth) was fulfilled". So not random details, but each with a specific meaning for their being mentioned.

  If anything, trying to harmonize accounts by claiming inspiration from a single source only makes God appear to be suffering from multiple personality disorder.

  Adam
• 

  Ding

  Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53 prophesy many of these events.

  The crucifixion events lasted about six hours (from the "third hour" (Mark 15:25) to the "ninth hour" (Matthew 27:45; Mark 15:34; Luke 23:44)) so it isn't surprising that Jesus said several different things during this time frame and that some things he could say relatively calmly and some he might shout (especially as the agony increased and death approached). The four gospel writers agree on many things but no one includes everything or emphasizes the same things. Here is a chronology suggested by Scofield that includes everything that is covered by the various writers:

  1. Jesus is brought to Golgotha (Matthew 27:33; Mark 15:22; Luke 23:33; John 19:17)
  2. Jesus is offered a drink but refuses (Matthew 27:34; Mark 15:23)
  3. Jesus is crucified between two thieves (Matthew 27:35-38; Mark 15:24-28; Luke 23:33-38; John 19:18)
  4. Jesus says, “Father forgive them; they know not what they do.” (Luke 23:34)
  5. The soldiers cast lots for Jesus’ clothing (Matthew 27:35; Mark 15:24; Luke 23:34; John 19:23)
  6. The Jews mock Jesus (Matthew 27:39-43; Mark 15:29-32; Luke 23:35)
  7. The thieves mock him but one repents and believes (Matthew 27:44; Mark 15:32; Luke 23:39-43)
  8. Jesus says to the repentant thief, “Truly, truly I saw to you, today you will be with me in paradise.” (Luke 23:43)
  9. Jesus tells Mary, “Behold your son” and says to John, “Behold your mother.” After that, John takes Mary into his own household. (John 19:26-27)
  10. Darkness (Matthew 27:45; Mark 15:33; Luke 23:44)
  11. Jesus cries in a loud voice, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (quoting Psalm 22:1) and spectators think he is calling Elijah. (Matthew 27:46-47; Mark 15:34-36)
  12. Jesus says to fulfill the scriptures, “I thirst.” (John 19:28)
  13. Jesus says, “It is finished!” (John 19:30)
  14. Jesus shouts in a loud voice, “Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit.” (Luke 23:46) (Matthew 27:50 and Mark 15:37 reports Jesus’ loud voice but do not state the words he used.)
  15. Jesus dismisses his spirit and dies (Matthew 27:50; Mark 15:37; Luke 23:46; John 19:30)
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  Comatose

  Ding his dying words are totally different. Read the accounts. In Luke he says that and dies. Right then. Dead. In Mark he says the other and dies right then. Dead.
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  Ding

  Matthew and Mark both say that after he made the "why have you forsaken me?" statement he cried with a loud voice and then died. It doesn't say what those last words were. Luke does.
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  Comatose

  Well, that makes Jesus someone who suffers from multiple personality disorder to me. I can't argue with what you believe. It's everyone's right to believe what they want. But, to me the evidence is there to show that the details are different.

  Would you agree that there is a strange difference in what god said at his baptism?
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  snare&racket

  Good work comatose,

  reading the bible is the best way to become an atheist!
• 

  Finkelstein

  The Bible is full of fictionalized story telling concerning the Hebrew god Yahweh and later on concerning

  the supposed son of this god Jesus Christ with the intent of creating power and relevance to these gods or spiritual beings.