Sense of Mortality, Existential Angst and Leaving the Borg

by Frazzled UBM 17 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Hi, fellow UBM here. I see normal teen development delayed chiefly because they must not question. Whereas a young adult "out in the world" will develop their own set of mores separate from their parent's, a Witness youth is stuck. Funny, they are allowed other forms of rebellion like in-house drinking and partying, but they are not allowed to question their life course. This enforcement must delay their maturation.

    To understand the older Witnesses' eternal delayed gratification, I use the concepts outlined in Zimbardo's Time Perspective. I've discussed it before here:

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/206567/1/Belief-in-the-Afterlife-where-do-you-sit-on-the-scale

    Keep in mind that there are plenty of religions who have a similar time perspective. They perceive this life to be a mere shadow of what is to come. How does this affect the actions they take? Do they plan for retirement?

    My hubby is deferring educational opportunities, a desire to learn a musical instrument for instance, for the day he has a perfect brain and body. Instead he focuses on those activities the WTS says will bring him the most satisfaction; magazine study, meeting attendance, and field service. At the same time I can see that he dreads old age. He's not ready for it.

    I think Witnesses to ram up against reality at some point. I think it makes them vulnerable to quack cures and quick fixes. I caught an older Witness with bad teeth reading an Atkins diet book at the convention.

  • DesirousOfChange
    DesirousOfChange

    FRAZZLED: For born-ins who don't wake up until their 40s or later is it a double whammy mortality smack in the face?

    TRUTH SEEKER: I could not imagine what it must be like for a born in JW in thier 40's or 50's or later in life comming to terms with thier own mortality. Thats why I cut the older born in JWs some slack. Life is tough and some people just can't face it.

    I don't have to try to imagine it. I've lived it.

    I really believed that I would never die. (Of course, I was worried about that during those troubled teen & 20-somethhing years). Nor my parents. Nor grandparents.

    I married a born-in. We truly believed that we would never get old, get sick, or die.

    The "double whammy" is dealing why it took me over 50 years to wake up to the lies.

    Doc

  • Giordano
    Giordano

    I was in at 13 out at 23. Yes there was some adjustment to be made especially catching up on education and starting a career. But no real trauma. The beliefs peeled off as easily as peeling skin from a sunburn. I am sure that the reason my wife and I could seperate ourselves from the doctrines is because we were heavy readers. We always had a book working. Spent one winter plowing through Steinbeck, Hemingway, Wolf.

    A reader especially of history gets to know stuff real stuff which counters WT indoctrination. After a while my appreciation of the 'friends' and our family just turned into impatience with the WT and distain for what they taught so we walked out.

  • Narcissistic Supply
    Narcissistic Supply

    I used this in my child custody battle and gave it to the judge, mediator, and two attorneys. To my surprise the judge said he was grateful and "learned something" when he decided the case. I ended up with > 50 percent custody (total time) of my two daughters. I patterned a lot of it of the "Normal Life Cycle" in the Western Culture. I wanted the judge to understand my game plan.

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    An Education Mode l To Building Bridges With

    Children Of Jehovah ’ s Witness . A Modular

    Approach .

    An education model could help children of Jehovah’s witness to experience a

    balanced and fulfilling life. This thesis is based on:

    1. Education of a Normal Life Cycle of the individual and family.

    2. Education through story telling and life experience.

    3. Education through positive self talk, goal setting, and thinking about things that are desired.

    4. Education RE: pleasing personality, positive mental attitude, and definite major purpose.

    5. Education RE: strategies of achievement.

    6. Recognizing one’s gifts.

    7. Using a “Team Approach” to educate children of jehovah’s witnesses.

    RATIONAL: The children are the life blood of the Jehovah witness (JW) organization.

    Without the ‘born ins’ and education through isolation and control the JW organization

    has nothing. There is nothing inspirational about a ink printing magazine and largest

    tree killing company known to modern man. This may have worked in the 1950′s when

    there was no educational material to speak; and teaching a kid to read or write was

    attuned to anointing their head with oil. That doesn’t work in this day and age. There is

    nothing awe inspiring about a 1950′s building or a big logo from the 1980′s on the side

    of a building. Nothing there to take your breath away.

    The governing body is a group of 80 and 90 year old men spending their days

    discussing issues of dis-fellow shipping and new ways to threaten the jw masses with

    loss of family and total destruction. This just doesn’t have the same appeal that it once

    had.

    The governing body: These are not men of rocket science. These are not men of logic.

    These are not men of inspiration. They do not feed the good in others. They feed the

    fear and guilt. They feed the isolation and control. They feed the anger and frustration

    that goes along with being poor and losing your family if you don’t follow the rules of

    nonsense.

    There is good and bad in jw’s isolating their children and making them dependent on

    the parent for all forms of stimulation and learning. The children are inspired by this

    type of attention. They are inspired by being the center of the parents attempts to

    isolate them. They are inspired by this mindset; because it works. It is effective; BUT it

    can also be used to educate gifts that will actually help the child to build relationship,

    build friendship, and interact with the world in a fulfilling and textural manner:

    1. Education: The Normal Life Cycle of the family and individuals in the western

    Culture involves increasing levels of independence. The normal life cycle of the western

    culture involves ultimate “Launch” of the children in to independence. That is

    considered “Normal.” in the culture in which we reside. Western Culture is not pushy in

    this regard.

    The normal life cycle of the family involves increasing independence as a child grows

    and develops and learns new things.

    The children have relationship, they build bridges with other classmates, they go to

    each others house, they go to events of significance and memory, they have other

    siblings, they have many relationships, they use technology to further these

    relationships, they converse, they email, they text, they watch programs that are

    creative yet challenging to culture, and language, and expectations of experience.

    These are impaired and (for the most part) forbidden in the jehovahs witness

    household.

    The normal life cycle of the family involves dating and eventually starting one’s own

    family. The normal life cycle of the family involves an “empty nest” on a part of the

    parents. It involves increasing independence in later years for the parents as a part of

    discovering their own interests. These are generally delayed, impaired or do not

    happen in the jehovah’s witness household.

    The normal life cycle involves plans for retirement when possible. It involves trying to

    improve one’s position in the world through relationship. It involves improved socio

    economic position through cooperation. The life cycle is impaired at this stage in the JW

    household.

    The normal life cycle does involve taking care of the elderly when they get sick or are

    unable to take care of themselves.

    Interruption to the normal life cycle can come in many forms. It can come when a child

    moves back home. It can happen with illness or injury. It can happen with trauma or

    death. It happens with caring for another unexpectedly. It is effected by many many

    things.

    For the children, It’s all about independence and increasing independence which is

    generally the expection.

    Having a gold standard of “Normal” life cycle to compare children of jw’s will have a

    clear picture. This could help children understand expectations of society and allow

    direction and perspective.

    2. Strategies for educating through story telling and life experience. Educators

    need to be identified and a strategy of working together to target children of jehovah’s

    witnesses. It could be teachers, guidance counselors, it could be a gym coach. All of the

    educators could work together with a plan and approach. It doesn’t have to be a state

    mandated educational goal from a state buracracy. it could be incorporated with parent

    teacher conferencing, it could be volunteers at school. Everyone can work together on

    this goal and dream through a mastermind alliance. It will work and it is very possible

    to totally educate children of jehovah’s witness to eradicate fear and bullying “mentally

    diseased” ideas.

    Education strategies to date have been mis directed towards educating jehovah’s

    witness directly. This falls on deaf ears as there is no desire on a part of a jw to interact

    socially or constructively to build bridges.

    Many strategies just further the isolation and control of the jw.

    Dialoguing one’s own life experience is a powerful teaching tool. Especially when one is

    angry or upset. If an adult can dialogue to the children about their experience and their

    thoughts at that moment of anger and fear. That can go a long way to helping the child

    understand why parents are angry, or lash out. Telling the story about how you grew

    up and the experiences you had can help a child understand and thrive to no end.

    Above all. Don’t be afraid to tell your story. Don’t be afraid to risk with talking to the JW

    kid. They need that help. and they need to hear that perspective. they need to

    understand and learn to challenge their fears. They need to understand that challenging

    fears one by one; and they go away.

    Build bridges with the JW kid. Reach out to them by being a friend and questioning you

    when they put you off. Reach out to them with a positive spirit. With a kind word. With

    a vote of confidence. reach out to them by questioning them and telling your story if

    given the chance. Get them involved. Help them in any way.

    3. Specific targeting through positive self talk, goal setting, and establishing

    direction for one’s life.

    Marc Victor Hansen and Anthony Robbins speak in great detail about goal setting,

    visualization, and establishing a definite major purpose in life. These skills can be

    taught:

    Marc victor hansen says that we need to write down 101 goals. The act of writing them

    down drills them in to the sub conscious mind and allows us to work on them.

    Anthony Robbins is a success coach that works with athletes and anyone who wants to

    perform at high levels. He is a phenom on visualization and self talk. He would say

    anyone can have success with the right self talk and visualization. These skills can be

    learned. These skills are entirely counter to everything taught by the jehovah’s

    witnesses. but the children can be taught to use this aspect of the mind.

    Creative visualization alone could make all the children immune to thoughts of poverty,

    ill health, and fear of criticism. Creative visualization alone could make children immune

    to the extreme psychological manipulation of the elders and parents. Creative

    visualization alone can help you hit a home run when everyone in the congregation

    wants you to fall flat on your face.

    4. Education RE: definite major purpose, pleasing personality, and positive

    mental attitude. Napolean Hill speaks of having all your thoughts feelings and drive

    attached to a definite major purpose. When you back thoughts feelings and emotions

    with action it creates a powerful force to achieve your desires. A pleasing personality

    and positive mental attitude will help you arrive at your destiny.

    Coaching children of jehovah’s witness to “think about the things they want “ and “don’t

    think about the things they don’t want. Coaching them to “think about, talk about,

    dream about, the things they want in this world.”

    Help these children set goals. Coach them through the process. They will resonate

    with the pleasing personality. They will vibrate at a high level with positive mental

    attitude Don’t bore these children but show them in the ways that you interact with

    them. Don’t give up on these kids. They need the help of the entire community. Tell

    them frequently how proud you are of the. Say it in a manner that they know you

    mean it. Tell them how grateful you are for them.

    5. Specific strategies for achieving one’s definite major purpose in life, once

    establish. Take these jw kids under your wing. Be a part of their socialization

    process. Encourage your children to play and dance and sing with these kids. Make a

    special effort. Plan things. Invite them to parties. Invite them swimming. Invite them

    to play on a daily basis. Just letting them interact with other kids. If they are isolating

    themselves. Ask them about it. If they don’t want to participate ask them about it.

    Coach them that they can choose to participate in this world or they can choose not to

    participate in this world. the world does not really care. The world will pass by the kids

    who do not want to participate. The experience will be gone. the learning will be

    gone. Everything matters. All learning experiences matter. They feed on and

    encourage other learning experiences. These kids need some coaching to develop their

    social skills that they are just not geting from their parents because their parents are

    not capable. Their parents are trapped in the cult. It’s that simple. they will lose thier

    families if they participate in some issues of community or if they break bread with

    apostates. That’s sad. But it’s reality.

    Get everyone involved with these kids: family, friends, neighbors, school teachers,

    ect ect ect. They need special attention. THey have special needs. Give it to them.

    6. Recognizing what makes one’s heart sing.

    Learning one’s gifts can happen by observing what makes your heart sing. By observing

    what makes time not matter. what makes you lost in the moment. What excites you.

    What you prefer to do. What you do because it’s fun and not because of what

    somebody tells you is fun. Those are the clues that will lead you to your gifts. Those are

    the clues that will help you find what is easiest to excel. Many of the most successful

    people and inventors in their field do things out of love of what they do and not

    because the money is there, or the fame, or some form of fortune. They do it because

    they love to do it.

    In the case of inventors, Sometimes doing the wrong thing until you run out of wrong

    things to try will lead you exactly to the answer to your question. It’s as if you ran out

    of wrong things to try. This was true in the case of Henry ford. this was the case in the

    invention of the incendescant light bulb.

    7. Using a “Team Approach” to educate children of jehovah’s witnesses. I think

    one has to walk thought the entire process with the children. There can be input and

    teaching from a variety of sources. In fact, the more sources and learning experiences

    the better.

    These kids need help from parents, neighbors, school teachers, counselors, coaches,

    friends on the street, acquaintances, any and all. These kids are at a social

    disadvantage and they need your help. They need a variety of experiences.

    These kids especially need their parents to demonstrate social skills and develop

    social relationships but they are not going to receive this. They need your help

    instead.

    Normally a child will display anxiety in direct proportion to the extroversion of the parent.

    These children are not going to have parents that display extroversion. They are going

    to need other means of breaking down the walls inflicted by the jehovah’s witness

    organization.

    Thank you for making the effort to examine my work.

    Best,

    Reference: "An Education Model To Building Bridges with children of Jehovah's Witnesses"

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/98212851/Building-Bridges-With-Children-Of-Jehova-%E2%80%99s-Witnesses

  • LongHairGal
    LongHairGal

    Frazzled:

    I rid myself of their paradise earth teaching first thing because I felt it was unhealthy to hold on to a doubtful teaching that had a lot of holes in it as far as I was concerned. It was just a tease and made people not live in the present moment, which is the only one they really have when you think about it.

    I wasn't a born-in but still feel that lingering sense of anger or outrage.

    It is as though I want somebody to be punished for all this. There are people in the religion I would like to tell-off but they have passed away. I often wonder what I would say to them if they were in front of me. It is hard to get your head around the fact that there will never be real justice for being lied to and time wasted. Others have worse stories to tell.

    I have moved on for the most part and don't believe in any particular religion.

  • concerned2
    concerned2

    Do you agree that JW's think only they will inhabit paradise when there are so many non JW's who act more Christian than they do?

  • Hortensia
    Hortensia

    I went from horrible nightmares of being destroyed at armageddon to something of a sense of relief when I realized everyone dies, and that we come from nothing and return to nothing. I don't want to die, but I know I will. It was hard to accept that I will cease to exist, but once I realized that when it happens I won't be aware of not existing, well, somehow it all became easier to handle.

  • rubadubdub
    rubadubdub

    Welcome Frazzled UBM!

    I am a raised-in since nine years old, walked away at age 52 ex-JW. You asked for personal experiences regarding mortality. This is mine.

    The issue of mortality was what gave me my initial wake-up call. I was sitting at a Service Meeting one Tuesday evening. They were droning on about the need to do more in the ministry, because so many people were going to die. . . I thought, "If one more person tells me my kids are going to die. . ." My daughter was DA'd "by her actions", my son was DF'd and my husband was a "known apostate", but they could never get the goods on him. For nearly a decade I knew that I just didn't want to live forever in a paradise alone, without my family. I even told the elders so. Of course, they told me to "Wait on Jehovah." I wondered how I ever would be the same person, if all memory of my loved ones was removed so that I would no longer suffer from the memory of their loss. I couldn't understand how I would even be the same person if I would not remember being married or being a mom. Something just snapped inside of me that night. I can't even explain it now, just two years later. Why was that my breaking point? Our family had been through much worse.

    I thought things through carefully for six weeks on my own, only attending one Sunday meeting while I traveled with a sister and the 3 days of my final District Convention. I knew upon leaving that I was accepting that I was going to die. I was OK with that, as long as I could live the rest of my days united with my family. Of course, there were other huge issues-- I would not shun my son, I knew the over-lapping generation teaching was crap the moment I heard it, etc.

    The thing I was not prepared for happened this spring-- it was four years sine the death of my DIL, and it hit me hard. I had to really grieve her loss for the first time. JW's don't really grieve a death fully, because that would show a lack of faith in the ressurection hope. I deeply greived my DIL's death for months and figured out what I needed to do to celebrate her life and did it. It doesn't hurt quite so much anymore.

    Our son is healing. He invited my husand and me to visit him and go sailing for a week this fall. He is planning to come home and cook Thanksgiving Dinner together with me again this year. He even called it our "new tradition." And we are planning for the whole family to celebrate Christmas together with my daughter and her boyfriend who live in Central America. I choose my family and accept my mortality. I made the right choice.

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