The Paradox of Using Miracles to Explain the Bible Accounts

by Comatose 20 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Comatose
    Comatose

    I've been thinking about this for a week or so. I’ll try to lay it out as clearly as possible without getting to long winded and I’d like to hear your thoughts.

    I know the biblical account of the flood has been discussed ad nauseum. I am not going to be bashing the story or attempting to prove why it is false. But, rather looking at a common explanation that was used by my parents and I have heard in the pages in the WT as well as off the lips of other JW’s. I want to analyze the common claim that god could have simply used a miracle to solve any of the objections that are commonly levied against it. Many Christians today do not think it is a literal account taken as truth, but many still do. JW’s the ones this post will focus on.

    Biblical Story – The angels came to earth and mated with women who they found attractive, the offspring were called Nephilim. The Nephilim ruined the earth and hurt people. The earth became so bad that god regretted making man and all life on it. There was one man named Noah who was good. God made a covenant with Noah prior to giving him the dimensions of the ark. The deal was that only 8 people would live at the coming extinction event. God then decreed and set the size of the ark at a size that would accommodate only the 8 people and animals plus the supplies. The flood happened and covered the tallest mountains while lasting the better part of a year. Noah finally deduced that the waters receding by releasing birds until one came back with leaves in its mouth showing Noah that plant life was above water.

    Paradox of Miracles – When asked how coral could survive under a mile of water away from the sunlight, a JW would say god could do that. How about fresh water fish and salt water fish living in the murky smothering brackish water? God could do it. How about getting the animals from remote continents and locations to the ark? God could do it. In fact, the new book has a chapter on Noah and mentions god having the animal types orderly file onto the ark from far away places. That would be a miracle. How did insects and worms survive submersion for such a long time without drowning? God could do it. How could the ark survive that torrential downpour and bursting up from under of the waters without breaking? God could do it. How could all the animals get along and not eat each other? God could do it. How did they not run out of food or get sick from the filthy living conditions? God could do it. How did whales and porpoises survive for so long without the food they need or the salinity and habitat they need? God could do it.

    So, the flood was possible as understood by fundamentalists only with the use of miracles. Where is the paradox?

    Why didn’t a god capable of such miracles simply with a “blink of an eye” wipe the bad people off the face of the earth? Why would a perfect god incapable of petty anger kill all life on earth over the acts of some bad people?

    If god is capable of miracles to the extent the flood would indicate, why did he require a wooden boats construction that took decades to build? Why did he require them to gather food and supplies when he can provide food from heaven?

    When a god asks mere mortals to take specific actions to save themselves by constructing their own survival craft, then the use of miracles makes no sense. When JW's try to explain where the water came from using a logical approach of claiming there was a water canopy and water underground then the miracles neccessary for the flood to happen do not make sense. Blending miracles with plausible explanations just does not mix.

    I’ll leave you with this.

    If god spoke to Noah? – Genesis 6:13, Genesis 7:1

    If god shut Noah in the ark? – Genesis 7:16

    If god remembered Noah? – Genesis 8:1

    Then why was Noah sending out birds to try to see if the water had receded? – Genesis 8:6

    Why wasn’t Noah just asking god?

  • sir82
    sir82
    If god is capable of miracles to the extent the flood would indicate, why did he require a wooden boats construction that took decades to build? Why did he require them to gather food and supplies when he can provide food from heaven?

    God seems to take great delight in demanding that his creations "prove" just how much they love him.

    "If you don't show me your faith by performing this arduous task, I'll kill you too!"

    The God described in Genesis is a bit of a prick at times, I daresay.

  • Ucantnome
    Ucantnome

    he probably did it so it would take faith to believe it.

  • cofty
    cofty
    he probably did it so it would take faith to believe it.

    What a strange quality to value. Why does god view it as a virtue to believe things contrary to all the evidence?

    If I was god I would value things like compassion.

    I have a theory there actaully is a god and he is a 12 year old boy with ADHD. All the evidence fits perfectly.

  • cantleave
    cantleave

    I have a theory there actaully is a god and he is a 12 year old boy with ADHD.

    and he pulls the wings off live butterfies for fun!

  • Ucantnome
    Ucantnome

    maybe it's the trust

  • adamah
    adamah

    ucantnome said-

    He probably did it so it would take faith to believe it.

    Bingo! That's part of it, too.

    I've often pointed to the foolishness of arguing against the impossibility of what is claimed as being a miracle on the grounds of science, since it'll ALWAYS be met with a "God Dun IT!" defense.

    However, it's actually even worse than that, since EVERY protestation that you make about why it's impossible (eg freshwater fish surviving in brackish water, etc) only serves to REINFORCE the sheer impossibility of the event, which is going to give the person more reason to view God as being even MORE POWERFUL than they actually appreciated before you pointed out the evidence, since in their mind, God was able to handle all these other minor details, too! Paradoxically you're only bolstering their beliefs by making it MORE IMPOSSIBLE, not LESS!

    The thing is, people are known to prefer believing the IMPOSSIBLE over the highly IMPROBABLE. That's just a fundamental of human nature, and is expressed when someone like my JW brother told me with a look of utter gob-smacking amazement on his face, "There's just too many claims in the Bible for it NOT to be true! I mean, who could make anything like this UP?" So the sheer impossibility of the claims added up in his mind to actually transform the Bible into becoming MORE BELIEVABLE. THAT'S the paradox you're battling, and hence the reason why it foolishness to try and DISPROVE Biblical accounts of miracles!

    And as stated above by ucantnome, faith kicks into gear when dealing with anything that cannot be understood by reason, and faith requires us to be willing to accept that which can not and never could be understood. Since the Bible places utmost value in 'faith' (just as any Nigerian scammer does, too), believing a story like the Flood actually becomes great proving grounds to strengthen one's faith! For a believer, a story like believing is like a gym for their faith (and note that one's belief in the global Flood has only paradoxically increased with time, i.e. it was even less magnificant and preposterous then, as to someone alive in 300BC, it didn't see all that impossible as it does today).

    INSTEAD, I think it's better to 'soften' someone up by pointing out the inconsistencies in the Bible itself (as mentioned in my blog articles on the Flood, here and here), and then when they're able to see the weaknesses in the Bible accounts (which don't center on the miraculous elements of the story, but the actions of God, as depicted in the Genesis account), they're then hopefully willing to accept the evidence from science that points to the impossibility, and an more reasonable way to see the World.

    Adam

  • Ucantnome
    Ucantnome

    Adam in Matthew 19:26 it says all things are possible with God i think

  • cantleave
    cantleave

    all things are possible with God

    Then it's about time he got off his fat lazy arse and did something useful!

  • Comatose
    Comatose

    Ucantnome then why did Noah have to use birds to divine whether or not there was land? Was that a lack of faith?

    the problem isn't just believing in miracles. It's mixing them with natural or scientific evidence. Stating the water came from a water canopy that was surrounding the earth keeping it all pleasant and livable with no snow and ice previously. It's so easy to disprove that. But, then when it is proved false the fall back is that it was a miracle.

    It would be better for fundamentalists to just claim miraculous flooding from god where all is possible. I might still be a witness then honestly as I was deep in and brainwashed. It's trying to provide amazingly contemptible evidence that makes people think and realize there is a logical problem.

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