If albumin is allowed when it's not from blood, could white blood cells from mother's milk be allowed?

by ILoveTTATT 23 Replies latest watchtower medical

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  ILoveTTATT

  TD, thanks for the clarification. I was wrongly thinking that I read somewhere that certain vaccinations are made with albumin from eggs and not from blood, and that made it "acceptable"... Here's a possible explanation to my misunderstanding (interesting what I placed in bold, meaning that, for all intents and purposes, if it is a fraction, or it DOESN'T COME FROM BLOOD, it is OK)...

  (The first article is from 61, I know that JW's accept Hemoglobulin now, but... ignore the stupidities and try to find the loophole)...

  *** w61 11/1 p. 669 Questions From Readers ***

  Sometimes labels show whether a blood fraction is used, but not always. For example, a label may say that a certain product contains albumin. Does that mean that it contains a blood fraction? Look up the word albumin in a good reference book, perhaps an encyclopedia in your local library or even a good dictionary. You will learn that albumin is found, not only in blood serum, but also in milk and eggs. The only way to find out the source of the albumin in the particular product in question is to make inquiry of those who prepare it. However, if the label says that certain tablets contain hemoglobin, similar checking will reveal that this is from blood; so a Christian knows, without asking, that he should avoid such a preparation. Clearly, these are matters that each individual can best check on locally.

  *** km 11/06 p. 5 How Do I View Blood Fractions and Medical Procedures Involving My Own Blood? *** ALBUMIN—UP TO 4% OF PLASMA A protein extracted from plasma. Types of albumin are found also in plants, in foods such as milk and eggs, and in the milk of a nursing mother. Albumin from blood is sometimes ………… I accept albumin used in volume expanders or to treat shock and severe ………… I refuse albumin burns. These preparations may contain up to 25 percent albumin. Minute amounts are used in the formulation of many other medicines, including some formulations of erythropoietin (EPO).

  Here's my question: For the JW's who are hard-core and still in, it would be beneficial if the medical community bypassed the "white blood cells" objection by getting them from mother's milk... THIS COULD SAVE A LIFE FOR THE JW'S JUST AS MUCH AS HEMOPURE COULD SAVE LIVES... Here's the thing: A lot of us, at the very least, dislike the WTS. I do too. But we have to be compassionate and loving with those that have not opened their eyes, and even with the ones that don't want to... If we can get ONE more blood treatment to fall under this "loophole," and it saves from weak to hard-core JW lives... then I say go for it!! We can help them see TTATT later!! (And this loophole would be an easy way to start the conversation)... Who should I talk to to see if this would be a viable idea? Can someone help me contact ajwrb.org?
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  Marvin Shilmer

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  “If we can get ONE more blood treatment to fall under this "loophole," and it saves from weak to hard-core JW lives... then I say go for it!!”

  I’ve confronted Governing Body members on the point you raise in face-to-face conversation. They clammed up. Each flatly refused to have the discussion. In each case it was a very awkward moment for them.

  I’ve also confronted various Watchtower apologists on this point. Most of the time they’d end up saying if medicine decided to extract white cells from milk for transfusion it’d be okay because the Bible nowhere prohibits eating milk like it prohibits eating blood. When I pointed out we were not talking about “eating” milk or blood but, rather, about “eating” white cells, they’d usually launch into voodoo suggesting that white cells in milk are not the same as white cells in blood. Pure rubbish!

  Watchtower’s blood taboo has no point of reason. It’s not biblically supportable. It’s not scientifically supportable. Watchtower’s Governing Body knows this and it’s precisely why they refuse to discuss the matter in full public view, or even privately with someone who understands the doctrine and the science.

  Marvin Shilmer
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  TD

  For the JW's who are hard-core and still in, it would be beneficial if the medical community bypassed the "white blood cells" objection by getting them from mother's milk... THIS COULD SAVE A LIFE FOR THE JW'S JUST AS MUCH AS HEMOPURE COULD SAVE LIVES...

  Maybe a medical person could give you a better answer. From what I've read, leukocytes are sometimes given to leukopenic patients, but this is not a common treatment at all and the effectiveness is debated. It's doubtful if the medical community would make a concession of this magnitude for such a small religious group.
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  ILoveTTATT

  Yes, but suppose that one JW has Myelodysplastic Syndrome (I am not sure if this requires white blood cell transfusions, but let's just say hypothetically that the ONLY cure/treatment is white blood cells)...

  The doctor hypothetically says... hey... we have this treatment that is white blood cells from mother's milk... NOT blood. Can you accept this? Then shows the JW the article from 61...

  The JW, desperately wants to save his/her life, and sees this as a potential thing that would be potentially acceptable... would the HLC call the society about this?

  This would be an interesting do-or-die situation... which I hope no JW is ever on... but... since this world is what it is... eventually this "perfect storm" might show up... and then... idk...

  Your last post left me ... if there is a God, they will PAY!!

  Their cruelty is just... I am speechless..

  ILTTATT
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  ILoveTTATT

  Perhaps do an ex-JW fundraiser? Perhaps a startup company? I know this stuff is WAAAY over my pay grade...

  Hemopure made sense from an economic and medical viewpoint. If there was something that replaced the function of red blood cells without them being red blood cells, that would revolutionize medicine.

  Doing the white blood cells thing just for JW's is... well... stupid from an economic viewpoint. However, I don't think that it would be too hard... just centrifuge the mother's milk... how much money would a hospital need to have a specific centrifuge/equipment for JW's? The bloodless hospitals might be interested to try and push this point... They already have done all sorts of things to accomodate JW's... so I don't think that with some fundraising, some explanation from the doctors, and a willing JW family/non JW that could donate the mother's milk, plus a doctor looking for a "guinea pig"...

  If you're a person who's involved heavily in blood reform for JW's... I am sure you can find a way!! I am sure the ex-JW community can find a way!!
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  TD

  The doctor hypothetically says... hey... we have this treatment that is white blood cells from mother's milk... NOT blood. Can you accept this?

  How could a doctor say that though? Doctors and hospitals are dependent upon med labs with equipment that is not designed to extract blood products from milk. Because of the huge potential liability, med labs also have strict procedures and protocols both in production, oversight and quality control that can't suddenly be set aside.

  Think of it as a factory that produces thousands of units a day. Are they going to retool and retrain from scratch to produce five units?
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  Truth seeker 674

  You know I Love TTATT I believe white bloods cells are associated with immune response and don't carry oxygen like red blood cells do. But you never know what is research in this area will reveal in the future. There is soooo much research going on out there.
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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  Marvin:

  Watchtower’s blood taboo has no point of reason. It’s not biblically supportable

  If WT followed its own rules blood fractions would also be unavailable for a JWs use.

  w77 7/1 p. 410 Insight on the News

  To some it may appear humanitarian for persons to donate blood that will be used for transfusion purposes. Obviously, at least some individuals believe that there is religious merit and spiritual benefit in doing this. However, when viewed from a Biblical standpoint, such a "sacrifice" is of no benefit to the donor and actually violates the law of God.

  Moreover, God’s law to his people of ancient times specified that blood, when taken from a body, was not to be used for anything, but was to be disposed of. (Deut. 12:16) Later, Christians were specifically required to ‘abstain from blood.’ (Acts 15:28, 29) So, ‘donating blood as sacrifice’ is neither effective nor approved by God.

  WT 10-15-2000, QFR:

  Blood is not to be stored; it is to be poured out —

  returned to God, as it were. Granted, the Mosaic Law is not in force now. Nevertheless, Jehovah’s Witnesses respect the principles God included in it, and they are determined to ‘abstain from blood.’ Hence, we do not donate blood, nor do we store for transfusion our blood that should be ‘poured out.’ That practice conflicts with God’s law.

  ---

  So if blood is not to be stored or to be "used for anything", how are fractions justified? If a JW is not to donate blood, why is it not a conflict "with god's law" to accept someone else's donated (removed from body), stored and fractionalized blood?

  Hypocritically, the WT resorts to the very tactics it denounces:

  W 7/1/51, p.414 QFR:

  The prohibition was about taking blood into the system, and this simple fact cannot be altered by ingenious reasonings and subtle worldly wisdom.
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  zound

  JW's are now mosquitoes. They don't don't donate blood, or store their own blood, but they expect to have worldy peoples blood donated, stored and extracted to save their lives.
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  ILoveTTATT

  Hmm... can we think outside the box for a little bit?

  (All you who are more knowledgeable on the subject, please correct me if wrong)...

  1. Restrictions are a LOT less in other countries. Clinical trials don't have to be in the US/Canada (at least not the first one). Apparently we only need scientific proof-of-concept. Hemopure made HUGE sense in South Africa (avoid HIV, longer shelf-life, etc), and as far as I understand, it was approved there since 2001.

  2. Cows and other animals don't have a religion. There's more cows in the world than humans. How hard can it be to convince ONE person in a University or lab somewhere in the world to make an experiment? The experiment would be get a sick animal that has an illness that can only be cure by WBC's... and then get the WBC's from donated milk from the same animal species. How much money would said experiment need? Remember, science does science sometimes for the sake of it... who knows what that research will yield... perhaps contact the SAME company that created Hemopure... maybe bovine WBC's will work in humans (??), maybe it would be a different company that is willing to try this out...

  ILTTATT