What would it take....

by Separation of Powers 10 Replies latest jw friends

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  Separation of Powers

  I was speaking to my sister the other day. She has faded much quicker than I. She moved on with her life along with her husband and family. We still talk every day and share our little ditties about life. She knows that I am still holding on by a thread. No, not because I believe in any of it, but like many on this forum, I am just trying to keep the peace...for the rest of my brothers and sisters still in the strangle hold.

  Interestingly, she stated the following,

  "What will it take for you to simply walk away? What more do you need? The GB have risen to a station even above the apostles. They blatantly change...not adjust...doctrine, and I know you don't believe it. What else do you need to see? If you are waiting for the rest of the family to climb on board this train, THAT may never happen."

  So, I pose the same question to the rest of you, those who, like me, are holding on for the sake of your family and the need to experience some semblance of normalcy.
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  Oubliette

  It's a great question!

  So how did you answer?
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  Thor

  Hi! Unlike you I am not holding on. I left the borg six years ago with no looking back. That being said, everyone is different, and what's right for one might not be right for another, and it seems to me that none of us have any room to judge the other. Keeping peace is a big deal and only you can know what to do. As far as your sister is concerned, she clearly cares and I'm sure she loves you very much, but on this subject maybe you could just ask for a little more space and time to make up your mind about how to go about everything.

  I wish you peace and clarity of thought,

  Mrs. Thor
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  OnTheWayOut

  Your sister walked away faster. Does she suffer from shunning? Is something awful happening to her that you are avoiding?

  It seems YOU need to answer your own question.
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  Gopher

  Maybe - to get a semblance of normalcy, you have to steer clear of people related to you but really are fonts of abnormality. I don't know if there is a way to "keep peace" with the family and simultaneously keep peace with your own inner self, whom you know doesn't belong in the cultlike religion.
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  JakeM2012

  Separation of Powers, good question, and yes, everyone is different.

  Do you think that you have a good enough relationship with family that you could lead the rest of the family away by example? If you just stopped, would they think, hey what made brother quit, something must be wrong with the org. or he is upset with something?

  It is possible that some in the family are continuing for the reasons you stated. I don't know if you are in the same hall or not, but if one sibling might not want to stand out from another with mom or dad. But I don't know your situation.
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  Separation of Powers

  Oubliette and OnTheWayOut,

  My family has seen alot. They are the typical "where else can we go?" type of witness. Hardcore and scarred. Cynical yet trusting. I will tell you the game changer for most if not all of THEM to walk away. It is something my grandfather said about the time the elder arrangement came into play, early 70's, when the GB first started. "Our allegience is to Jehovah." THAT has always resonated with the family. So, I think that if the organization ever asks the R&F to swear an oath of loyalty to it, the majority would walk.

  I know, some would say, "Well, isn't that what they are doing with the adjusted baptism question?" No, I don't believe it is. I mean an "oath" of loyalty like I think Ray Franz mentioned Schroeder had suggested in one of their meetings and it was summarily rejected by the majority.

  I believe that this requirement is right around the corner. The spirit of this group (the GB) and their revisionism is a hint of what is to come. When it happens, I will be there to help them live up to what OUR family knows is right. THAT is the main reason I have stayed. Maybe an overactive sense of justice or an overactive thyroid causes me to "stand still and see the salvation of the LORD."

  As for my sister, she experiences NO shunning from anyone that matters to her. Those of the family that "shun" her, "shun" just about everyone else. They are just wierd like that. I am proud of her because she chose to marry a man that has his head squarely on his shoulders and not... He has helped her to intelligently and systematically fade. I have followed that lead to a great degree, but have not severed the cord for reasons as noted above.

  SOP
• 

  LostGeneration

  So how long have you been holding on?

  I held on for about a year total, from the time I clicked on to my first 'apostate' website. It was jumping into the deep end within a week. I researched it all. But it really only took a few days for the Watchtower walls to come crumbling down. I realized they were as worthless as any other religion out there, and worse on many counts. It sounds like you are know its all bull like your sister pointed out. What holds you back?

  Its usually that last little bit of fear that keeps us in longer than necessary. Fear of the unknown, fear of the shun gun -- some people have a job or an inheritance on the line, for them its got to be torture. Some do it for many years, if not longer. I really do not know how they can do it.

  Once you lose the fear, and just say f*** it, you can move on. You say you are keeping the peace, how did they handle your sister? Sounds like she has paved the way for you a bit. My advice - JUST DO IT. A normal life awaits!
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  LostGeneration

  There is no reason for them to institute a formal loyalty oath. Baptism and the shunning that comes with DFing is enough for them to maintain power.

  Don't trick yourself into thinking the b0rg will ruin itself with some crazy doctrinal change. The rank and file lick the nectar off of the bOrg's teats like mother's milk. Most will go to their graves believing its God's organization.
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  adamah

  I often ask a form of that question to a "true believer":

  "What evidence could possibly be presented to you to convince you that God doesn't exist?"

  If they're honest, they'll admit that NO evidence could be presented, since they KNOW God exists; they just KNOW it.

  There's no point even talking any further to them about it, since their belief in God is not logical but is quite untouchable; their belief exists ABOVE the realm of evidence, and is in the realm of DESIRES, what they WANT to be true.

  Whether they want to admit it or not, their belief in God exists largely because of THEIR egotistical desire for Him to exist, and not based on some external verifiable evidence of God's existence or not. That's a damning admission, a self-incriminating statement for them to make (and even harder to recognize, since their ego is entirely intertwined up in the decision).

  Restated, it's not a LOGICAL decision, but an EMOTIONAL one: anyone who thinks it's purely driven for logical reasons is missing the boat for what keeps most people inside the JWs: the fear of loss of social connectedness, the threat of expulsion from the group that even controls one's power of association with one's own family.

  You'd better believe that the JWs understand that element, and use it against those who they seek to marginalize, declaring them as "apostates" or bad associations. That's the power of the group, and God help anyone who dares take it on, since you're going up against the status quo.

  Adam