Witnessing to athiests

by zound 22 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  adamah

  I can disprove Jehovah in 5 minute.

  Athiesm is a religion

  I'm an agnostic for a reason. I'm logical and see both sides. I cannot disprove God. (I can disprove the Shashu god Jehovah!)

  BTW Richard Dawkins is an agnostic!

  You and the OP might want to learn how to spell 'atheist' first, then look it up in a dictionary to understand what the term actually means BEFORE making absurd statements like "atheism is a religion" (nope: atheism is simply the rejection of the positive claim made by theists that God exists, where rejection of their claim is a perfectly rational thing to do, since theists haven't met their burden of proof to support accepting such a claim. Atheism is as much of a religion as non-stamp-collecting is a hobby).

  By saying you cannot disprove God, you're actually referring to "strong atheism", which is the POSITIVE claim that God DOES NOT exist; that's a different matter, since THEN the burden of proof falls on the one who makes the claim (the strong atheist). Like you, I will make that claim about Abrahamic Jehovah, since I CAN prove He doesn't exist by using the Bible itself, based on inconsistent traits that are claimed for Him in scriptures. But can I prove the non-existence of some other random unknown deity? I'll cross that bridge of disproving when a need arises, since it's a bit like the old "if a tree falls in the forest, does it make a sound" question.

  As far as what Richard Dawkins does or does not claim to believe, thanks, but I think I won't take your word for it, since you seemingly didn't know about the stuff above.

  Adam
• 

  Nathan Natas

  Atheism is a religion in the same way that not smoking is a habit.

  ...and for Crisht's sake, learn to spell atheism correctly!
• 

  cofty

  I have never met a "strong atheist".

  'HowTheBibleWasInvented' why do you imagine the choice is between...

  1 - a theoretical nutter who thinks they have discovered the ultimate proof there is no god

  2 - somebody like yourself who seems to think it's a 50:50 question for which there is no answer.

  Personally I am certain there is no god and no supernatural realm or spirit world. I can't prove it - proof belongs only to the mathematicians. I have an open mind on the topic, if there is some evidence I have missed I hope a believer will be good enough to share it. I don't want to be wrong any longer than necessary. I find the evidence against god to be compelling and the evidence for god, contrived at best.

  I adopt the label of atheist, not agnostic, but being an atheist is just a corollary of being a rational person who rejects superstition.
• 

  Iamallcool

  David Reed was Atheist before he became a witness, now he is ex jw christian. Well he is not my cup of tea. Google David Reed, Jehovah if you never heard of him.
• 

  Laika

  JW training is mainly focussed on converting current christians by proving to them that their beliefs are 'non-biblical.' Perhaps this focus is a part of their decreased growth in the increasingly secular west?
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  Borgia

  The fossil evidence could be consistent with the idea of a Great Designer; perhaps some species are destroyed when the Designer becomes dissatisfied with them, and new experiments are attempted on an improved design. But this notion is a little disconcerting. Each plant and animal is exquisitely made; should not a supremely competent Designer have been able to make the intended variety from the start? The fossil record implies trial and error, an inability to anticipate the future, features inconsistent with an efficient Great Designer (although not with a Designer of a more remote and indirect temperament)

  There you go. very candidly indeed.

  Cheers

  Borgia
• 

  Nathan Natas

  David Reed may have been an Atheist before he became a witness, but the day he stopped burning our special odorless incense he was OUT.
• 

  steve2

  The Watchtower has little, if anything of value, to say to athiests. The publications do love to very selectively quote what some well known athiests have said; but beyond this, it is very slim pickings.

  I'd suggest that JWs and other Bible-believers spend less time trying to prop up Scripture and more time thoughtfully considering what atheists themselves are actually saying.
• 

  adamah

  Borgia said-

  The fossil evidence could be consistent with the idea of a Great Designer; perhaps some species are destroyed when the Designer becomes dissatisfied with them, and new experiments are attempted on an improved design.

  You know what ELSE is consistent with a Great (Intelligent) Designer? You'd expect a designer (at least, an INTELLIGENT one) to be intimately familiar with the basic elements found in "their" creations!

  Unfortunately, Jehovah fails miserably on that count, too, almost anywhere you look in the Bible. Even overlooking the entire creation account in Genesis 1/2 (too easy):

  1) our modern knowledge of human anatomy shows us that humans don't "think with their hearts" (as they literally believed in Bible times, and as God is quoted as saying in Genesis 6)

  2) human anatomy tells us that kidneys are organs of excretion, not "organs of emotion and decision-making"

  3) the Earth is NOT "flat/round", but more approximates a SPHERE

  4) there is no filmament to which the Sun, moon, and stars are attached (and that one doesn't even work with the old stand-by, "but it's metaphorical!" excuse. Firmament is metaphorical of WHAT, exactly)?

  5) Ptolemy was wrong, and Galileo was right (and he had to promise on a stack of Bibles not spread his heretical "facts" to save his life). Hence Bruno was executed by the RCC for no good reason in 1600, other than not following official Church doctine and dogma on the Earth being at the center of the Universe.

  6) there are no "vast storehouses of water in the Heavens", or "great waters of the Deep".

  7) snakes don't "eat dirt"

  8) Jesus was just flat-out wrong: illnesses aren't caused by "demons" or "sins (of the person or their parents)", but ARE often caused by microorganisms which cause intestinal infections which ARE reduced by handwashing BEFORE a meal.

  So Jesus picked the ONE 'man-made' rule of the Pharisees to object about how inferior they were to God-given Laws found in the Torah, when the handwashing practice actually WAS ahead of its time and arguably WOULD serve as proof of an "Intelligent Designer" who knew his own design (remember, this was millenia before science discovered the role of microorganisms in causing illness). But NO: Jesus had to put his dirty foot in his mouth and declare handwashing as worthless, saying while you COULD do it, it wouldn't do you any good (when anyone who's taken ANY course related to public health knows that "handwashing is the single-most important means to prevent the spread of diseases").

  I could go on, but it gets rather tedious....

  And more importantly, it likely won't stop JWs from repeating the shockingly-ignorant statement, "Do you know that whenever the Bible speaks about a topic related to science, it is NOT wrong?"

  Adam
• 

  5go

  I think the problem all christians have with atheist is they think that athiests have no clue about Jesus or the Bible and think only bad of God and Christians. Which is why they have contempt for them or talk to them like Atheist are spoiled children wanting to have their fun sinning and the such. Not realizing most atheist were raised as christians and have seen or heard plenty of sins commited in the name of god. A lot of time they have read the bible several times over thier lives and came to the conclusion that Christianity has about as much validity as any other religion's claim to validity. Hence Jesus and Zeus are pretty much the same load of crap in diffrent packaging. It's just one is accepted as real and one was accepted as real at one time.