Do the Witnesses "manipulate" recruits? (page 3)

Xenu

There is no brainwashing in the org of the Jehovah

og

Xenu, clearly an expert on brainwashing.

"Belief is the death of intelligence." R.A. Wilson

og

Re: topic - All classic cult techniques are used, albeit in somewhat milder forms. So, the WS isn't even particularly good at being a cult.

"Belief is the death of intelligence." R.A. Wilson

Bona Dea, from reading some of the comments from you post, you were not originally a JW, correct? I am not a JW, but am educating myself because of somebody I have befriend who is JW (do not know her status, but I believe she is one of the on the fence types).

"I can remember reading an article that they had brought to me about saying "bless you" and "good luck". I had never thought of things the way the articles had presented them. Over a period of time, I began to feel guilty when I said these things...like I might actually be offending God or something. Eventually, I made a conscious effort to quit saying them altogether.

I also had a picture of Christ nailed to the cross (an antique) hanging on my wall. Even after we had covered the whole cross/stake thing...and I had became convinced through our thorough research of scripture (of course, with the aide of their bible based publications ), that Jesus had indeed died on a stake and not a cross...the picture remained on my wall.

One day while studying, a subtle comment was dropped. The conversation went something like...

jw's: "if I have some candles with snowmen and snowflakes on them, decorating my home in the winter...granted it doesn't really mean I believe in celebrating Christmas...BUT what would someone else think if they came into my home and saw them?"

Their eyes then moved to my picture on the wall. I laughed and said,

me: "Well I suppose I should take that down. I'm just so attached to it. I never really thought about it that way..."

Then some little remark was made like..."we're not telling you what to do...just something to think about." Then the seed was planted. The picture, of course, came down. I mean, if I was really a good christian I definitely wouldn't want to stumble someone by keeping this picture on my wall... "

How and why did you get involved with the JW's? Were you ever baptized. Looks like they used a subtle type of power of suggestion on you.

Liberty

Hi Refiner's Fire,

I do think that the Watchtower Society uses "mystical manipulation" on new recruits. Most R&F JWs doing the leg work aren't aware that they are manipulating people and the techniques are very subtle, quite effectively masquerading as an "intellectual" approach. In many ways the Watchtower cult preys upon modern people's inclination toword skepticism/intellectualism. As young recruits I remember my parents becoming very self confident in their new found "knowledge" about the Bible.

My parents were very young, poor, and had just High School educations so I think the JWs business dress and pseudo-intellectual style really appealed to them on a subconscious level saying, "hey these people really have it together and they are so smart and confident that I want to be a part of this too." Most future JWs are already predisposed to listen to the Society's spiel due to their being submerged in a Christian culture and already having a respect for the Bible but they are coming from religions which DO NOT preport to have a rational approach to the Bible or worshiping God.

The JWs are somewhat unique in that they attempt to view the Bible rationally due to Russel's grounding in the rationalistic America of the late 19th century, thus his hatred/rejection of older traditional organized religions and Hell Fire. This rational approach is of course completely incompatable with the myths and nonsense in the Bible but Russel lived in an age where these could still be melded into some symbolence of a belief system since scientific advancements were still very slow to seap into the popular culture.

This JW ability to "answer" every question and to appear rational while constructing elaborate explainations of the Bible's mysteries are contrasted with traditional Christianity which gave up on reconciling faith and secular knowledge years before Russel arrived on the scene. Older and wiser religious leaders knew that Christianity is, by its very nature, a mystical and irrational mystery which relies on faith and not reason in the believer's mind. JWs reject traditional Christian beliefs like Hell Fire and the Trinity because these seem irrational and contradictory. In essence, the Watchtower Cult is a transition religion trapped between the age of reason and the traditional myths of Western Culture. Ultimately, however, this reason applied to religion approach is an illusion because its very basis cannot be rational. The Bible is not a rational scientific document. It is instead an ancient book about supernatural events and beings which are inexplicable, unprovable, and totally dependant upon the believer's faith since no evidence for these is possible.

Once a recruit is fully intigrated into the Watchtower Society they are confronted with the reality that this relgion is also irrational, contradictory, anti-scientific, faith based, and has questions which must not be asked because they cannot be answered. The Watchtower World is a realm of irrational fears of Satan and his demons all the way up to the mighty and psychotic Jehovah and His genocidal wars. If a fear of invisible beings and the inability to ask questions because the answers are "the deep things of God" is not mystical then I don't know what is. The Society has manipulated its followers by decieving them with the lie that they will gain deep knowledge of the scriptures and will be equipped to answer any question. In reality, most JWs, even the top leaders, have a very superficial Bible knowledge, cannot explain their own complex timelines and prophecy interpretations, nor can they answer basic scientific questions about the Flood or Creation posed by a knowledgable opponent. This deception is a manipulation.

Bona Dea

Hi Darkhorse,

No, I was never baptised. Luckily I woke up, so to speak, before I made that plunge.

I became involved with the witnesses for several reasons. One thing was curiosity. I live in the bible belt of the South. Growing up, I was strongly advised to stay away from JWs. So, I guess curiosity killed the cat. I had to open my door to these people, if for no other reason than to know why everyone steered clear of them. Another thing, was that I had a bad experience with a church that I had attended for about 10 years. I was a little (sarcasm) bitter against the church and in time, in my own mind, I somehow had managed to lump all church people into this one category...narrow-minded, hypocrites. The witnesses really couldn't have picked a better time to knock on my door.

I apologize for the sarcasm to RF. It's just I'm still involved with the witnesses because, unfortunately, my husband doesn't share the same p-o-v as I do concerning the Borg. He is very into it. So, this is still a very fresh and real thing to me and not something I'm remembering from a long ago past.

I wish you the best with your friend. I do hope you can help her.

"Half the world is composed of idiots, the other half of people clever enough to take indecent advantage of them."
-Walter Kerr

slipnslidemaster

Does a bear shit in the woods?

Slipnslidemaster:"I worked very hard and I earned all the attention I'm getting."
- Anna Kournikova

Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America

og

RF, your question seems more than adequately answered. Do you agree?

LDH

http://jamescook.tripod.com/falsewit.html

Please read the above link and you will have the answer to your question as to whether JWs are manipulated.

Lisa

Darkhorse

Hi again Bona. Thank you for the reply.

I can understand how somebody could get involved with the JW's if they are unaware of the "real deal" when you become a baptized witness. Up until a few years ago when I met the woman I befriended, I thought the JW's were only the people who came door-to-door trying to convert you - but I was uneducated to their beliefs and customs. I saw my friend leaving the local KH one day. It had been rumored she did not observe holidays, and I wondered what kind of religion she was in. I figured she was JW, it was on a Sunday, she was leaving the hall, had a dress on and her two children were also "appropriately attired" to attend the hall. She looked very uncomfortable that I saw her leaving the hall; but we both never brought it up.

I checked out JW's on the internet - wow! was I shocked at what I was reading. My friend was very, very hard to get to know; she has been confiding in me quite a bit now regarding personal matters (not religion). I do not think she attends the Hall very much now because we are both at the same place on Sunday mornings - not church. I do not hide from her that I do not go to church - it is pretty obvious. Especially on Easter Sunday, when she asked me what I was going to do that morning, and I told her - wasn't church as I did not have my Easter finest on. I am not into organized religion (am a non-practicing Catholic - have been for many years because I did not agree and still did not agree with their rules; found many things hypocritical). I figured I would be better off doing my own thing; to each their own.

I have had bad circumstances in my past when I was much younger, where not being educated to the JW's probably would have lead me to allow them to start trying the conversion tactics. I think like you, after a while I would not have gone the entire route and been baptized, only because I never bought the Catholic rules either. But who's to say, at a vulnerable point in life, what one would do.

Do the Witnesses "manipulate" recruits?

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