I am sick to my stomach after watching this video by Cedars. That pharisee Stephen Bell said we should follow the example of Jesus but did Jesus ever shun anyone in the Bible?
Did Jesus ever shunned anyone?
by UBM101 18 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Jeffro
UBM101:
I am sick to my stomach after watching this video by Cedars. That pharisee Stephen Bell said we should follow the example of Jesus but did Jesus ever shun anyone in the Bible?
None of the stories about Jesus suggest that the character ever shunned anyone, though he was a bit of a prick to the poor Phoenician woman.
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sarahsmile
No way! I think Jesus called certain leaders names big deal!
Paul wrote to congregations about what to do with wicked men. Put them out and do not eat with them. However,later he regrets writing the letter and writes another about forgiving one another so Christ can forgive us. He regrets his own harshness, read 1 Corinthians and 2 Corinthians.
Confession were handle through prayers. There is no biblical proof that a person who confesses doing a sin or confesses another person sin that either are thrown out of the congregations.
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2+2=5
He doesn't talk to me :(
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mP
Jeffro;
None of the stories about Jesus suggest that the character ever shunned anyone, though he was a bit of a prick to the poor Phoenician woman.
mP:
he was not a bit , he was. perhaps the only interaction with a gentile women and she has to equate herself with a dog. you might not realise it, but being compared to a dog is a big insult in those cultures, in much the same way calling someone a "bxtch' etc is quite an insult. this was a terrible exaple to set. im sure if anybody else called a loved woman in your life something like that you would be disgusted. in fact i highly doubt you would invite them for dinner or something at your home.
The sad thing is people lie to themselves and everyone else about Jesus, claiming he was good or nice, when the truth is quite the opposite. He would be considered a vile pig if he repeated the same today. just look at his disciples, he taught peter and the others so well, they refused to eat with non jews. Whats the difference between them and the kkk ? Arent they both just racist pigs ? How could "good" jesus have taught his disciples so poorly that they all ended up like this ? perhaps the simple answer is he was just like them.
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sarahsmile
Ok I listened to this talk and it is taking Jesus out of context. First Mathew 10:31-40 is not talking about disfellowshipping. Second Jesus is talking with the twelve about himself. The preaching to the nation's and governments. Sending them out two by two so they can preach Jesus Christ and not Jehovah!
This is the new religion of the day followers of Christ and it has NOTHING to do with loyalty to Jehovah. They are preaching Jesus coming and proving power by healing.
Many were going to hate theses twelve because they are preaching the Messiah is here and the Kingdom is near! Most likely in a Jewish community.
During Jesus time with the twelve they were hated because of Jesus.
Indeed Jesus caused families to divide because most Jewish people did not believe that the Messiah was here. They were to preach the Kingdom was near.
Mathew 10
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, giving them these orders: “Do not go off into the road of the nations, and do not enter into a Sa?mar′i?tan city; 6 but, instead, go continually to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 As ? YOU ? go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of the heavens has drawn near.’ 8 Cure sick people, raise up dead persons, make lepers clean, expel demons. Y OU ? received free, give free. 9 Do not procure gold or silver or copper for ? YOUR ? girdle purses, 10 or a food pouch for the trip, or two undergarments, or sandals or a staff; for the worker deserves his food.
Look! I am sending ? YOU ? forth as sheep amidst wolves; therefore prove yourselves cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves. 17 Be on ? YOUR ? guard against men; for they will deliver ? YOU ? up to local courts, and they will scourge ? YOU ? in their synagogues. 18 Why, ? YOU ? will be haled before governors and kings for my sake, for a witness to them and the nations. 19 However, when they deliver ? YOU ? up, do not become anxious about how or what ? YOU ? are to speak; for what ? YOU ? are to speak will be given ? YOU ? in that hour; 20 for the ones speaking are not just ? YOU , but it is the spirit of ? YOUR ? Father that speaks by ? YOU . 21 Further, brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child, and children will rise up against parents and will have them put to death. 22 And ? YOU ? will be objects of hatred by all people on account of my name; but he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved. 23 When they persecute ? YOU ? in one city, flee to another; for truly I say to ? YOU , Y OU ? will by no means complete the circuit of the cities of Israel until the Son of man arrives.
The above scripture is not referring to families that are all Christians but a mix group who do not believe Jesus aS the Messiah. It is NOT referring to today. Although people are being killed because of believes in Jesus Christ!
IT makes me wonder, if this speaker is so busy trying to gain membersp loyalty to Jehovah by proving the above scriptures are about modern day family division through disfellowshipping and twisting scripture that he neglected scripture meaning and loyalty to preaching Jesus! This really is a good example of manipulation and scripture abuse! -
tec
I did not listen to the talk, but if they are using Matt 10 as sarahsmile quoted above... then they have missed the point entirely. (and it does refer to anytime... because it has to do with those who witness to Christ anytime) But the point... others will persecute YOU, shun YOU, put YOU out of the church/synagogue, have YOU put to death, etc.
Nowhere does Christ teach that his followers are to DO the persecution or shunning, etc. He warns only that his followers will be the subjects of those things.
And no, He does not shun anyone.
The deal with the woman in mP's example, is that Christ was sent FIRST to Israel, as the promise was made to them, and so the covenant for a kingdom was offered to them first... THEN, it opened to everyone else. However, the great faith of some people had Him granting their requests also... showing that it is by FAITH, in Christ, that we may be saved.
Peace to you,
tammy
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Band on the Run
There is one fleeting instance where Jesus tells the Samaritan woman he can not help her because she is not Jewish. I thought this was very unusual for Jesus and disappointing. No big deal at a seminary but a big disruption at the local church. They worship Jesus with the special glitter in his eyes. Jesus suddenly changes his mind, however, and heals her.
He actually says he is sent for Jews alone. After this shocker, Jesus decides to heal her in the next verse.
Jesus loved Pharisees, tax collectors, prostitutes, disabled people, children. His apostles thought he was crazy.
Also, isn't there a parable about the sheep herder risking all for a stray sheep? Acts is full of the Holy Spirit healing and converting Gentiles. Paul insists on no class distinctions during agape meals.
The earliest outside comments concerning Christians have to do with crimes against humanity and incest. People misunderstood communion and agape meals. The view of Christianity changed when Christians stayed to nurse plague victims. The Witnesses are not Christians at all. They are ancient Israelite YHWHists.
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adamah
To the contrary: Jesus REFUSED to cast the first stone against the adulteress in John 8, and since shunning was a MUCH LATER "man-made" (non-Torah-based) rabbinical tradition designed to circumvent secular restrictions against imposing capital punishment of their fellow Jews (and thus a continuation of the very-same Pharasaical traditions Jesus often condemned while alive), it would seem Jesus couldn't be SHOUTING the message any louder that shunning is an extra-biblical tradition of men.
I wrote an article on this on my blog:
http://awgue.weebly.com/would-jesus-shun.html
The passage in Matthew 10 indlcates how the newly-converted Christians would be shunned and betrayed by their Jewish Torah-observant family members, NOT pointing out how the Christians would shun THEIR Jewish members.
That's a typical WTBTS intentional misreading of the words of Jesus, though, since they don't actually CARE what Jesus said anyway; Jesus is bad for the WTBTS business.
Adam
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Crazyguy
Jesus said to love your enemies and even in thessalonians paul said to keep admonishing them as a 'brother' If one is kicked out of the religion and never talked to, how can he still be your brother? So clearly the JW's have it wrong.