Elder's attitude to dating a non-believer vs acting like a Christian

by ItsMyLife 21 Replies latest social relationships

  • ItsMyLife
    ItsMyLife

    Hi all,

    I've not been on here for quite some time, due to personal reasons.

    I have been dating a wonderful man for nearly 11 months now. He's a non-practicing CofE Christian. I am a recently inactive JW (oh, how I regret getting baptized at 15).

    My Dad is an elder. He has told me that my relationship is wrong and that I know it. He has told me my son will suffer. He has told me that he can never invite my other half over for dinner as he can't approve the relationship. They know each other by the way, we all work at the same place. Dad has informed me that as my Dad, part of him is happy that I'm happy, but the elder/spiritual side can't approve at all.

    How can he/elders/witnesses not see that this is so unchristian towards the non-jw? They constantly use the scriptures that say 'Love your neighbour as yourself' and 'Do to others as you would want them to do to you', but it appears to apply ONLY to other witnesses!!

    I get so angry that my relationship and partner are judged because he's not got the label of JW. He's one of the most decent, Christian people I know. But they'd rather I dated someone who drinks too much and illegally copies dvds & cds (minor stuff, I know, but you get my point), because he's a JW. I'm freaking SICK of labels and the elitism and the bigotry - because that is what it is. Religionism.

    My gorgeous guy is feeling bewildered and confused as to how they can profess to be true christians when they are being so uncharitable towards the both of us.

    GRRRRRRRRR!!!!

    Sorry, just had to rant. Thanks :-)

  • Listener
    Listener

    I was called into the Judicial Committee because I had been seen with a worldly person and I admitted that I was dating him. Their decision was to mark me. I didn't know what this meant but it didn't sound good. I left the religion over this issue because to me it was too extreme and judgemental.

    I agree, 15 is far too young to be baptized, life has not even begun at that age.

  • Giordano
    Giordano

    Rule # 1. What your father thinks re his religion doesn't matter. The fact that he is an Elder does not speak well for him. The fact that he's happy for you on another level ....does.

    #2. If this is a good man that you want to spend the rest of your life with .....that is what matters. Just go slow and make sure.

    #3. Tell your guy to visit this site and just lurk for an hour or so and find out why your Dad approaches this issue in the way he did. Better yet copy him a few Points of View and let him read and learn.

  • ItsMyLife
    ItsMyLife

    Listener, the 'organized' book advises all spiritual JWs to reduce their contact with a 'marked' one, so as to shame them into getting back on the right path. Marking basically means that you've been classed as bad association, because you've done or are doing something that they don't approve of, but which isn't 'bad' enough to be reproved or disfellowshipped for. Such as dating a non-JW. Because the bible clearly says 'Jehovah's Witnesses must only date other Jehovah's Witnesses'. Oh, wait.......

    Giordano, thank you for the rules, I appreciate that. The trouble is, he is convinced that I might come back and that I am still a spiritual sister. And no matter how happy he may be for me (and I am thankful he has told me that), he will still put his religion before his family, no matter what.

    This is most definitely a good man that I want to spend the rest of my life with. I just wish he didn't have to put up with this crap because he doesn't deserve it. And neither do I, to be honest. I've been treated just as badly by witness men as I have by non-witnesses.

    He is a very understanding man, my guy. He can see it from my Dad's point of view, as I have fully explained it to him. And he does get it. But he still can't see the 'Christianity' in it! And neither can I.

    So odd how extremely intelligent people can still be blindsided and brainwashed and can't see what is right in front of them.

  • besty
    besty

    You and your guy could do worse than reading Steve Hassans books.

  • Julia Orwell
    Julia Orwell

    Be happy! True love doesn't just fall in your lap every day. If this man loves you for you despite your whacky family, go for it.

  • Frazzled UBM
    Frazzled UBM

    Speaking from personal experience I know what your guy will be experiencing. To people who haven't been exposed it come as a huge shock to find out how things work in 'Jehovah's Organisation' so work with him to help him to understand. At least he has you to help him and you understand the problems and have escaped the manipulation.

    Maybe your father will soften over time when he realises you are serious about this guy and particularly if you get married and have kids together or do it the other way around. The fact that he said he is happy if you are happy is a good sign I guess.

    I spent 3 days with my wife's family last week and my father-in-law exchange less than a handful of words with me perhaps because I banned him and my wife from taking my son to the KH. I wish you all the best

  • ItsMyLife
    ItsMyLife

    Besty, thank you. I have skimmed through one of his books, but I haven't yet had a chance to look at it in depth. Being brought up a JW has given me a deep aversion to reading anything that isn't fiction (yes, I realise the irony of what I have just typed!), so I've been putting it off. I will give it a go though.

    Julia, thank you so much. I am happier than I've ever been. The only time I feel sad or upset is when anything to do with the 'truth' crops up!

    Frazzled, I'm sorry you're in that situation - it must be very hard. I admire you for sticking at it and for standing up to him. I do have a son from a previous relationship, and that is another difficult situation with regard to them teaching/preaching to him. Not sure how to deal with that one yet. Thank you for your wishes, I wish you all the best in return. Stay strong :-)

  • KiddingMe
    KiddingMe

    A sister was "marked" in our congregation several years ago after marrying an unbeliever, a Muslim (if it matters, I really don't think it would have made a difference what, if any religion he was). Her brother who is an elder gave the marking talk. The whole thing didn't make since to me because she obviously hadn't fornicated (or they had no proof) because she was not DF'd but they felt the need to mark her. The Organize book says, "The loving concern and firm stand of faithful members of the congregation could indeed move the disorderly one to shame and repentance. When it is clearly evident that the individual has abandoned his disorderly course, it would no longer be necessary to treat him as a marked individual." I remember thinking, how could she abandon her disorderly course or show repentance, get a divorce? Their actions seemed contrary to the "Organize" book's explanation for marking since she had no course to correct. I drew the conclusion that, the marking was only to shame her (there was no course to correct) but more importantly a formality to let everyone else know that what she did was not condoned and to keep others from doing the same.

    From what I could tell nothing really changed as far as how she was treated nor did I recognize when or if she ever officially became "unmarked". I could be a little confused on the "unmarked" part, maybe they don't do this. Currently, she is an active member and seem very happy. She has a good relationship with her witness relatives. Her children from the "unevely yoked" marriage attend the meetings with her and have a close bond with their cousins (the children of the elder brother that gave the talk). I've never seen or met the husband.

    Do you think your dad is saying he cant support your relationship because you are not married and as a formality he cant condone your relationship with a nonbeliever but would be different if you ever got married? Witnesses have dinner all the time with other witnesses and their unbelieving mates. Maybe he can't outwardly support the relationship now but wouldn't he have to eventually come around if you were to marry? If you married and had marital problems and you went to him or any other elders aren't they suppose to support and encourage you to stay with your unbelieving mate?

  • Narcissistic Supply
    Narcissistic Supply

    It's only starting for that nice guy of yours.....http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_ambient_or_stealth_abuse

    Ambient abuse is the stealth, subtle, underground currents of maltreatment that sometimes go unnoticed even by the victims themselves, until it is too late. Ambient abuse penetrates and permeates everything - but is difficult to pinpoint and identify. It is ambiguous, atmospheric, diffuse. Hence its insidious and pernicious effects. It is by far the most dangerous kind of abuse there is.
    It is the outcome of fear - fear of violence, fear of the unknown, fear of the unpredictable, the capricious, and the arbitrary. It is perpetrated by dropping subtle hints, by disorienting, by constant - and unnecessary - lying, by persistent doubting and demeaning, and by inspiring an air of unmitigated gloom and doom ("gaslighting").
    Ambient abuse, therefore, is the fostering, propagation, and enhancement of an atmosphere of fear, intimidation, instability, unpredictability and irritation. There are no acts of traceable explicit abuse, nor any manipulative settings of control. Yet, the irksome feeling remains, a disagreeable foreboding, a premonition, a bad omen.
    In the long term, such an environment erodes the victim's sense of self-worth and self-esteem. Self-confidence is shaken badly. Often, the victim adopts a paranoid or schizoid stance and thus renders himself or herself exposed even more to criticism and judgment. The roles are thus reversed: the victim is considered mentally deranged and the abuser - the suffering soul.
    There are five categories of ambient abuse and they are often combined in the conduct of a single abuser:
    I. Inducing Disorientation
    The abuser causes the victim to lose faith in her ability to manage and to cope with the world and its demands. She no longer trusts her senses, her skills, her strengths, her friends, her family, and the predictability and benevolence of her environment.
    The abuser subverts the target's focus by disagreeing with her way of perceiving the world, her judgment, the facts of her existence, by criticizing her incessantly - and by offering plausible but specious alternatives. By constantly lying, he blurs the line between reality and nightmare.
    By recurrently disapproving of her choices and actions - the abuser shreds the victim's self-confidence and shatters her self-esteem. By reacting disproportionately to the slightest "mistake" - he intimidates her to the point of paralysis.
    II. Incapacitating
    The abuser gradually and surreptitiously takes over functions and chores previously adequately and skillfully performed by the victim. The prey finds itself isolated from the outer world, a hostage to the goodwill - or, more often, ill-will - of her captor. She is crippled by his encroachment and by the inexorable dissolution of her boundaries and ends up totally dependent on her tormentor's whims and desires, plans and stratagems.
    Moreover, the abuser engineers impossible, dangerous, unpredictable, unprecedented, or highly specific situations in which he is sorely needed. The abuser makes sure that his knowledge, his skills, his connections, or his traits are the only ones applicable and the most useful in the situations that he, himself, wrought. The abuser generates his own indispensability.
    III. Shared Psychosis (Follies-a-Deux)
    The abuser creates a fantasy world, inhabited by the victim and himself, and besieged by imaginary enemies. He allocates to the abused the role of defending this invented and unreal Universe. She must swear to secrecy, stand by her abuser no matter what, lie, fight, pretend, obfuscate and do whatever else it takes to preserve this oasis of inanity.
    Her membership in the abuser's "kingdom" is cast as a privilege and a prize. But it is not to be taken for granted. She has to work hard to earn her continued affiliation. She is constantly being tested and evaluated. Inevitably, this interminable stress reduces the victim's resistance and her ability to "see straight".
    IV. Abuse of Information
    From the first moments of an encounter with another person, the abuser is on the prowl. He collects information. The more he knows about his potential victim - the better able he is to coerce, manipulate, charm, extort or convert it "to the cause". The abuser does not hesitate to misuse the information he gleans, regardless of its intimate nature or the circumstances in which he obtained it. This is a powerful tool in his armory.
    V. Control by Proxy
    If all else fails, the abuser recruits friends, colleagues, mates, family members, the authorities, institutions, neighbours, the media, teachers - in short, third parties - to do his bidding. He uses them to cajole, coerce, threaten, stalk, offer, retreat, tempt, convince, harass, communicate and otherwise manipulate his target. He controls these unaware instruments exactly as he plans to control his ultimate prey. He employs the same mechanisms and devices. And he dumps his props unceremoniously when the job is done.
    Another form of control by proxy is to engineer situations in which abuse is inflicted upon another person. Such carefully crafted scenarios of embarrassment and humiliation provoke social sanctions (condemnation, opprobrium, or even physical punishment) against the victim. Society, or a social group become the instruments of the abuser.

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