by fulltimestudent 197 Replies latest social current
Jeffro:
Both sides are liars, but KR is an idiot. He has made so many mistakes that he shouldnt be allowed to govern. The roof batts and boat people policies are unforgivable. If anyone did just one of those in a business, they should never be given a job anywhere else.
The roof batts
A good idea that was poorly implemented doesn't automatically make someone a 'bad person'. And the implementation wasn't solely Rudd's decision anyway.
and boat people policies are unforgivable.
It's funny how people suddenly become so very concerned about 'boat people' when using the issue as a political football as you're doing here. It is absolutely a good idea to try to prevent people smugglers from their business. It is the people smugglers who should ultimately be held responsible for asylum seekers drowning at sea (unless a policy is actually enacted to scuttle asymlum seeker vessels, which seems unlikely). Sending asylum seekers somewhere is certainly better than 'turning back the boats' - an unsafe action that violates maritime law.
The Insulation batts issue: This became a convenient way for 'the other side' to attack Rudd following the success of his financial intervention in the Global Financial Crisis. Whether it was the right solution or just Rudd's lucky day, the program of spending money on something that may improve the future did work. Interestingly, the other nation that followed the same path as Rudd, was China. In China the government embarked on a huge expansion of Very Fast Trains and subways in the major cities. It also worked.
The USA, whose lack of financial discipline was at the core of the GFC, did not. They are still suffering for that.
What was the real reason for the problems with the program? We could argue that it was lack of correct supervision. So what should the Rudd Govt. have done? Well, they could have hired 10,000 engineers to supervise the installations. But where would they suddenly find 10,000 engineers, and at what cost?
But, the real reason for some failures, was first, the shonky business practises of some owners of some companies. And, second the incompetance of some tradesmen. For the sins of those two groups, the whole country suffered.
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The Boat people issue. Do you really think Abbott Tony (a reference to his training as a priest) is going to stop the boats? If he does it will only be by doing what Rudd has already done, saying to these refugees, We will NOT give you refuge in Australia - Go somewhere else.
Australia, through its uncritical support of American policies has contributed to the refugee problem.
And, the problem is a world-wide one. Europe has a far greater problem with refugees than Australia (they don't have to get on a boat to get there). But insular aussies, ignorant of the real world, think they are the only ones with the problem. Abbott Tony, for all his Christian training doesn't give a F*** about the poor people involved. He only cares about his personal ambition.
Jeffro
The roof batts
A good idea that was poorly implemented doesn't automatically make someone a 'bad person'. And the implementation wasn't solely Rudd's decision anyway.
mP:
Government is about managing people and resources amongst its other duties. When they author laws, they need to understand humanity and close the gaps and holes. By not seeing or preparing for this, KR is an idiot. The Labor party has basically admitted these things were exclusively his fault as he was the architect and very much in control of this and other decisions and managment.
If any bank setup ATMs without pin numbers and worked on a trust system, they would be broke pretty quickly, and would be a laughing stock. Sure the idea was reasonable but the implementation was poor. The same goes for KR, and when your an adult, ideas are great but implementation is equally or perhaps more improtant.
mP:
When they author laws, they need to understand humanity and close the gaps and holes.
The exact same argument can be used against Abbott's 'stop the boats' policies. Except there, the result is that the humanity dies because of the holes in the boats.
Jeffro:
The lib policy which stopped the boats saves lives, because it make the journy in those boats worthless so they stop. Even under the Labor policy mahy people still die along the way. WHy dont you tell the truth and talk about this ?
Secondly its not the Lib fault those irresponsible people get on boats they know are in terrible shape. Its their own fault, the blame for the deaths belongs with them. Just this year hundreds have died along the way, there have been numerous stories about this, where many drown or go missing. By keeping the current policy, many of these people try their luck and die.
Humanity does not die, those idiots who risk their lives die and the lives of their families die.
mP:
The lib policy which stopped the boats saves lives
The 'lib policy' didn't 'stop the boats'. World conditions (for example in Sri Lanka in 2009) generate different waves of asylum seekers, compared to other periods where there are fewer asylum seekers. The 'libs' quite happily - and equally dishonestly - claim that 'their policy' 'stopped the boats', whereas there were actually other international factors, for which the policies of the 'libs' were entirely incidental. It is quite naive to believe that Howard's policies, in isolation from everything else, 'stopped the boats'.
because it make the journy in those boats worthless so they stop. Even under the Labor policy mahy people still die along the way. WHy dont you tell the truth and talk about this ?
Under any policy, people who take actions that are independent of the policy may still die, or may have any of various other outcomes. But a policy that increases the likelihood that people may hear that a particular action won't get them into Australia, then it's more likely to decrease the number of asylum seekers trusting people smugglers and attempting to arrive by boat.
Secondly its not the Lib fault those irresponsible people get on boats they know are in terrible shape. Its their own fault, the blame for the deaths belongs with them. Just this year hundreds have died along the way, there have been numerous stories about this, where many drown or go missing. By keeping the current policy, many of these people try their luck and die.
The current policy dissuades people from coming by boat, because they won't be settled in Australia. Of course, not all refugees will hear about whatever policy is in place, but the likelihood of those people drowning will be the same irrespective of the policy. People who are desperate enough to pay people smugglers - often spending their entire life savings - and get on board a dangerous boat are not victims of Australian policy. They are victims of the people smugglers who greedily take advantage of those people's desperation.
The actual number of people who arrive by boat is actually relatively small compared to the number of refugees Australia takes each year, and despite claims of the 'libs', Australians in general - apart from a xenophobic minority - do not feel 'swamped by boat people'. The main concern (among sane people) is that it is too dangerous to attempt to get to Australia on a leaky overcrowded boat.
One of my Aussie colleagues here in London described it best when he said voting in this Aussie election is like choosing between Hitler and Stalin. A bit over the top but you get the idea.
MP: The lib policy which stopped the boats saves lives
Jeffro:
The 'lib policy' didn't 'stop the boats'.
mP:
Compared to the Lab policy it did.
And still they pour in, lured in part by Kevin Rudd’s foolish decision to weaken our border laws:
A BOAT with 181 suspected Afghani asylum seekers was intercepted off the coast of Christmas Island last night… It is the eighth asylum seeker boat to arrive this year.
So far this year already, seven boats have unlawfully landed 449 boat people in Australia. This is more than landed (288) in the entire last six years of the Howard Government
How abotu apologizing for downright lies, which you must have known were untrue. if you didnt know they were untrue, your an idiot.
Jeffro:
The main concern (among sane people) is that it is too dangerous to attempt to get to Australia on a leaky overcrowded boat.
,mP:
Bullshit, people dont want criminals and liars in their country. Typical as with all liars you introduce a subjective clause into y9our argument because the numbers which you never quote show your assertion to be lies.
Its been proven that 80% of boat people are still on the dole years after getting here. They are simple opportunists, they lie to get in, and they continue to scam the system to get benefits. Once they see the gov takes their lies, they keep on lying, just like you.
