Wt 2013 oct 15. KNOWING God is not about knowledge, it´s a conviction, LOL!!

Mr Fool

Besides, claiming that you KNOW God, is that a humble attitude?!

Well, isn't that apropos for tec's and adamah's debate! Of course, this has always been the WT standpoint -- that faith is based on real evidence -- though the "evidence" tends to be along the lines of "Aren't these specific aspects of the universe so nice for humans?". I haven't read this article yet, but I sense some very specious reasoning coming up.

Iown Mylife

Side point apropos of nothing - they are right, it is HARD WORK to stay united with Jehovah's people - exhausting, actually. And that bit about having love among themselves - they are probably just kidding.

zeb

sounds like the writers are trying to convince themselves

Comatose

How enlightening and spirit inspired! You need to beleive god exists before you will have faith in him... Well no shit Sherlock.

carla

Those must be Mormon's in the pic, I never see jw's smiling in fs.

AndDontCallMeShirley

It's confirmation bias:

1. Before I have any knowledge or facts, I will believe in Jehovah.

2. Now I'll find random "evidence" to confirm my pre-determined belief and ignore everything that contradicts my as-yet baseless belief.

adamah

Hey, how about that? The WT seemingly agrees with Tammy!

"Paul" (put in quotes, since analysis by most NT scholars suggests that Paul didn't write Hebrews, but it is pseudographical) used that same ol' argument that "evidence of God is seen in the handiwork of his creation that's clearly seen all around you!" when he preached in the marketplace to support a BELIEF in God, and it didn't fly then; it makes even LESS sense now, as if an evolutionary biologist hasn't even thought of examining the available evidence, LOL!

Talk about an ABSURD approach, Post-Darwin, and it's utteringly silly to keep on banging THAT drum, since the visible evidence itself points to evolution, not creation.

They manage to contradict themselves within the same page:

1) "To have strong faith in God, we must believe Jehovah actually exists" (circular logic, but essentially what Paul suggests, but in reverse, since Paul says belief is based on faith, which ALSO is circular logic when the evidence is invisible).

2) We base our FAITH on sound reasoning, based on visible evidence (which was Paul's argument to support BELIEF in God, as said above, not to BUILD one's FAITH).

Of course, sound reasoning using visible evidence DOES support one's BELIEF in God, but NOT via building one's FAITH; FAITH is defined as being built by examining UNSEEN evidence, being given as the gift of FAITH by God, but only if you ASK nicely with a "pretty please, with a cherry on top"!

The WT's tactic of vigorously claiming reason as the basis for their faith is the hallmark of being in denial of what Hebrews actually says, as well as reflective of their fallacious reasoning and willingness to engage in bald-faced scripture-twisting (AKA eisegesis). Not that it matters, since the rank-and-file is armed with confidence after being given a lil' pep-talk from their Mother telling them THEY are the smart kids, and that there ARE SOUND REASONS to faithfully sleepwalk from door-to-door, telling themselves their faith is based on SOUND REASONS!

I can think of some alternative SOUND REASONS for the GB to tell them this: for one, these magazines ain't gonna place themselves! Any more SOUND REASONS anyone can think of?

Adam

carla

"Jesus had truly made his Father's name known"-- oh really, how? He never used the word 'jehovah' as jw use.

I hate to say they are such 'simpletons' but I know of no other word at the moment that fits. (or that would be acceptable or pc)

Apognophos

Two quick points, adamah:

1. tec seems to be advocating faith in God based on one's inner voice, whereas the WT would never endorse such an idea because the rank and file don't get to commune with the holy spirit, only the anointed do. The WT asserts that faith can be based on broadly visible evidence, which actually places their claims on more tenuous ground than tec's because the WT's evidence (or lack thereof) can be examined more objectively than tec's personal experiences which are the basis of her faith.

2. I think you misunderstand the WT article's phrase "faith in God". They are saying that we can have faith that God will do this and that after we are confident he exists. "Faith" in this context is not "belief in God's existence", but "belief in the fulfillment of his promises", therefore it is not circular reasoning.

Wt 2013 oct 15. KNOWING God is not about knowledge, it´s a conviction, LOL!!

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