Jesus and the universal sovereignty issue

by Laika 16 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Laika
    Laika

    Compare: (http://m.wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102005142 - emphases mine)

    ... Satan charged God with lying and implied that Jehovah was unfair in not letting Adam and Eve decide for themselves what was right and what was wrong. After Adam and Eve sinned and as the earth began to be filled with their offspring, Satan questioned the motive of all humans. “People do not serve God because they love him,” Satan charged. ...

    ... Satan thus argued that Job served God just for what he got in return. The Devil also charged that if Job was tested, he would turn against God. ...

    ... The issue of integrity to God that was raised by Satan was not directed against Job alone. You too are involved. This is clearly shown at Proverbs 27:11, where Jehovah’s Word says: “Be wise, my son, and make my heart rejoice, that I may make a reply to him that is taunting me.” These words, written hundreds of years after Job’s death, show that Satan was still taunting God and accusing His servants. When we live in a way that pleases Jehovah, we actually help to give an answer to Satan’s false charges, and in that way we make God’s heart rejoice....

    ... You can answer Satan’s challenge by living in a way that pleases God. What does this involve? The Bible answers: “You must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your vital force.”

    With: (Romans 8)

    Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. ...

    What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

    I guess the universal sovereignty issue has been settled after all. Never mind.

  • Apognophos
    Apognophos

    It would seem like Jesus, at the latest, solved the issue by living a perfectly faithful life. At the earliest, Abel or Seth should have proven it as soon as they finished their life as faithful servants of God. Not really sure why millions of people have to be faithful to answer for two people who screwed up.

  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent

    Sorry, my friend ! You have only settled the issue in your own vivid imagination. There is no Yahweh, no Jesus, no Satan and no sovereignty issue to be settled.

    However, if believing this makes it easier for you to accept difficulties in your own life, then believe it as much as you want.

  • Laika
    Laika

    fulltimestudent, patronising much? Anyway, primarily this thread was not about what I believe, but about the fact that the sovereignty doctrine (not actually a biblical teaching) is contradicted by the apostle Paul in a book JWs themselves believe to be inspired by god.

  • Apognophos
    Apognophos

    Some posters are tone-deaf

    I appreciated your point, Laika. Paul did not believe that God could be challenged by anyone. It's amazing how, the more I get out from under the WT's mental control, the more I see that the Bible fails to spell out many of the things that we were taught constituted the message of the Bible, such as the issue of universal sovereignty.

  • Laika
    Laika

    Apognophos:

  • Honesty
    Honesty

    Apognophos...

    fulltimestudent...

  • zeb
    zeb

    Laika: straight and to the point. If this was given at a conv it would fill at least three pages!

    I recall a conv where the speaker started out with "Universal soverignty is the greatest issue facing mankind".

    At the time home loan interest rates here in Australia had rocketed to 18% putting a lot of people in dire straights. I attended that conv hoping to hear something hope filled. and, I know as a young dad with a young family what I was more concerned with. no chance as the ranters ranted.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    How do we know what Paul believed. We have some of his letters. I've read various commentaries. The RC and Protestant ones vary. I find them confusing. Also, central to understanding Paul is understanding world views of his time. I prefer doubt. Paul reminds me of Jesus- you tend to find what you want to see

    Countless scholars have studied Psul yet no clear man emerges for me

  • prologos
    prologos

    The creator rules by law, the natural laws. nobody, nothing has ever successfully defied them except

    Jesus as told in the boog with the talking snake>

    he is reported to have walked on water, turned water into wine fed thousands for pennies, gone into orbit without rocket assist, etc.

    all events unlikely to happen within the life time of the universe by accident.

    so he successfully challenged God's rule by law.

    so we are told.

    believe it or not.

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