Apostles were first governing body????

by NeverKnew 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

caliber

Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among YOU and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over YOUR souls as those who will render an account... Hebrews 13:17
The questions remains who were the ones taking the lead among you ?
Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God’ (1John 4:1)
The Bible Students are autonomous. Meaning they are self-governing. The ecclesia [congregation] itself elects it's own officers [i.e. elders, deacons, etc.] and committees [i.e. witness, comfort, convention] to help the class run as smoothly as possible. There are no paid clergy and no collections are taken during the meetings.
This Society was an organizer of Bible Student conventions and other activities, but it did not dictate any creeds or rules to the independent congregations.
Russell's faithful followers were united in hatred for the Roman Catholic church and its central authority and organization. Previously, as Adventists, they had railed against the RC church as "the whore of Babylon
By 1930, Many Bible Students abandoned the Society, and by 1931, the name "Jehovah's Witnesses" was adopted by the new leadership to differentiate between the Society's Bible Students and those independent of the Society

The main articles in The Watch Tower for August 15 and September 1, 1932 were a turning point
In 1932, did away with the local, elected elders.
The elders were for a time replaced by a "special service committee"still elected locally, but in 1938 this arrangement was also replaced by one in which the leadership were centrally appointed.
" Feeding many through the hands of a few" verses "autonomous self-governing ecclesia "
1Corinthians 3:9. For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building upon it. But let each man be careful how he builds upon it.
DATA-DOG

Zoos, that is an excellent question. I am not sure that I have an answer. I know that Jesus told his followers to observe the Pharisees and to do what they say, not as they do. While under the Mosaic law, the Pharisees did many things correctly, they followed the customs. The went of the rails when they let tradition supercede the spirit of the law. So as Jesus said, the Apostles could do what the Pharisees preached, they just could not act like those men. Is this making sense? I am confusing myself! LOL!!
The Apostles were taking the lead. They were directly chosen by Jesus. So if you or I had lived back then, we would have wanted to be obedient to the Apostles because they were keeping watch over us. It was clear that they had God's backing via Holy Spirit. Today the GB claim to be chosen by God, they claim that the WTBTS was chosen by God. If you believe their claims, then you would see Hebrews 13:7 as a valid reason to obey the GB, and by extension the DO, CO, and Elders. Since most JWs don't know TTATT and are very poor bible students, they assume what they are told is 100% accurate. They have given up their rights and Christian freedom in exchange for a comforting message. That message is that they will never die.
As far as rendering an account, the Elders really believe that the GB are chosen by God, so the Elders really believe that they will be held responsible for anything they do that is wrong. Many Elders are good people that are just following orders that they believe come from Jesus. Sadly, the WTBTS is a master of spin and revisionist history. As a result most Elders will look the other way when confronted with hypocrisy, because they feel they should wait on Jehovah. So unlike Esther, JWs rarely stand up to abuses within the Organization.
Until an individual sees the man behind the curtain, there is not much that can be done. JWs don't care about doctrine, they care about having their own problems solved by the death of billions of worldy people. They worship the Organization and they will not hesitate to expel anyone from the " temple " who they view as a threat. It will probably get worse.
Perhaps someone else will chime in about Hebrews 13:7? There may be a thread about it as well.
Peace,
DD
caliber

HEBREWS 13:7-8 REMEMBER YOUR LEADERS, WHO SPOKE THE WORD OF GOD TO YOU. CONSIDER THE OUTCOME OF THEIR WAY OF LIFE AND IMITATE THEIR FAITH.
Some commentators say verse seven refers to leaders of the past because the outcome of their life can be seen. But others say it refers to those of the past and present leaders, but those who are older and whose life shows years of faithfulness to God.
"spoke the word" sounds more personal ...nevertheless it was " their faith "that was to be imitated
The most current new light says there was no feeding program until our day starting 1914-1919 ( only then did the FDS appear )
Does this mean that we today are favoured with spiritual food and those after 33 C E -70 C E received none ? 1800 plus years ?
Did the those after 33 recieve no spiritual comfort or strength from God at all ?
Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
Jesus says with with always not in the time of the end but to the time of the end
DATA-DOG

Caliber, nice point. above I wrote Hebrews 13:7, but meant vs 17. Interestingly the two are related as Caliber has brought out. If we are to imitate and follow those who spoke the word of God to us, then we must know if what is spoken to us qualifies as truth. If a "leader" is not really teaching the word of God, but men's ideas, then we are under no obligation to follow them.
Convincing JWs that they are wrong is nearly impossible. In fact, they believe that since the WTBTS changes it's beliefs so often, it must be right! I have no idea how to help anyone in the Org. With the upcoming fear-mongering articles being studied, things will get harder. I hope that more will awaken.
blondie

Do a search of the bible and you will not find the phrase "governing body." jws are deceived when the WTS quotes Acts 15 and references "governing body." Just like the WTS says there is no word "trinity" in the bible.
AndDontCallMeShirley

Adam Clarke Bible Commentary:
Hebrews 13:7,8
"Remember them which have the rule over you - This clause should be translated, Remember your guides, who have spoken unto you the doctrine of God. Theodoret ‘ s note on this verse is very judicious: " He intends the saints who were dead, Stephen the first martyr, James the brother of John, and James called the Just. And there were many others who were taken off by the Jewish rage. Consider these, (said he), and, observing their example, imitate their faith. ‘" This remembrance of the dead saints, with admiration of their virtues, and a desire to imitate them, is, says Dr. Macknight, the only worship which is due to them from the living.
Considering the end of their conversation: " The issue of whose course of life most carefully consider. " They lived to get good and do good; they were faithful to their God and his cause; they suffered persecution; and for the testimony of Jesus died a violent death. God never left them; no, he never forsook them; so that they were happy in their afflictions, and glorious in their death. Carefully consider this; act as they did; keep the faith, and God will keep you."
As DATA DOG correctly pointed out, if the current leadership is being unfaithful and clearly doing/teaching things not in harmony with the Bible or faithful examples in the Bible, then a person has no obligation to follow them. In fact, I would argue, that following them constitutes unfaithfulness.
Blondie:
Just like the WTS says there is no word "trinity" in the bible.
JW: Is the word "trinity" found in the Bible"?
non-JW: "no".
JW: "then if it's not in the Bible it's not a Bible teaching".
non-JW: "Are the words "governing body" in the Bible?"
JW: "no"
non-JW: "uh huh".
Band on the Run

Paul did defer slightly to the Jerusalem group, esp. James, Jesus' brother and Peter. He did not quiver. James had family legitimacy. The Jerusalem crowd knew Jesus. Paul proclaimed Christ. He showed them respect, then forcefully argued against their theology. Paul believed his commission from Christ was as valid as their own. I don't recall any statement in Acts that the Twelve Apostles governed. Strong church legend is that they went forth around the earth. St Thomas is believed to have established the Ind ian church. These men argued when Jesus was present.
How about the first century was a long time ago with no records that survived. Bethel has fantasies
AuntConnie

Don't Call Me Shirley: "Maybe the GB should just read the Bible more:"
" Ray Franz made it clear they were not Bible scholars nor did many of them even preach in the Field Ministry. Ray Franz noted that his uncle rarley attended the Theocratic Meetings and to his knowledge, he never saw him in the preaching work.
They are too busy signing Bibles with their autographs, if the Angel who visited Daniel in chapter 14 stopped by to sign his scroll Daniel finished writing or the angel in Revelation 22 said "hey let me sign this book, a little something to detract from Lord Jesus Christ's name, the angel would have sinned!"
I get sick when I hear how the old men in Broke-lyn are going to be judging angels because of their life long struggle of preaching the Word like the early Apostles in the first century. What hardships did these men endure, riding "Coach" on Jet Blue or having to fly with KAL? JWs don't think things through, their too busy trying to gauge who is not going to make it into God's Kingdom while Jehovah is starting to turn his magnifying Glass on these judgemental little bugs! The worse hardship any Governing Body member had to endure was taking the Grey Hound Bus and staying at Motel Six, that's their personal story of victory against Satan's cruel world! They are con-men like L.Ron Hubboard, JWs are too busy bashing other religions to realize their religion is loaded with holes, it's a sinking boat!
transhuman68

LOL, it's all a load of bollocks, because Paul's account in Galations and Luke's account of the same events in the Book of Acts contradict each other. Bart Ehrman:
Paul is quite emphatic in the epistle to the Galatians that after he had his vision of Jesus and came to believe in him, he did not go to Jerusalem to consult with the apostles (1:15-18). This is an important issue for him because he wants to prove to the Galatians that his gospel message did not come from Jesus’ followers in Jerusalem (the original disciples and the church around them) but from Jesus himself. His point is that he has not corrupted a message that he received from someone else; his gospel came straight from God, with no human intervention. The book of Acts, of course, provides its own narrative of Paul’s conversion. In this account, however, Paul does exactly what he claims not to have done in Galatians: after leaving Damascus some days after his conversion, he goes directly to Jerusalem and meets with the apostles (Acts 9:10-30).
It is possible, of course, that Paul himself has altered the real course of events to show that he couldn’t have received his gospel message from other apostles because he never consulted with them. If he did stretch the truth on this matter, though, his statement of Galatians “In what I am writing to you, before God, I do not lie” takes on new poignancy, for his lie in this case would have been bald-faced. More likely the discrepancy derives from Luke, whose own agenda affected the way he told the tale. For him, as we have seen, it was important to show that Paul stood in close continuity with the views of the original followers of Jesus, because all the apostles were unified in their perspectives. Thus, he portrays Paul as consulting with the Jerusalem apostles and representing the same faith that they proclaimed.
Then there are more problems with the identity of 'Cephas' and the diverse nature of early Christianity, which makes the relationship between Paul and the Jerusalem Christians very unclear.

Apostles were first governing body????

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