How Do I Explain To My TalkTherapist That JW's Believe They Will Never Die? (page 3)

TotallyADD

At this point I don't think it really matters what you say on this subject. Just keep talking and talking about it all and finally one day it will all come together and make sense to your therapist and you. Then and only then you will be able to move on. I found talking and someone actually listening to you and how you feel really helps you to put all the pieces of your life back together. In the cult knowing about yourself and how you feel was not important. Only how the GB felt and wanted was what was important. You now have the chance to make things right again. So keep on talking and talking as the old saying goes "it will all come out in the wash". Good luck to you and thanks for all your help. Totally ADD

adamah

Yeah, as pointed out, ALL Christians believe in a man who healed miraculously and brought others back from death: the reason it doesn't seem strange now is you've heard it so many times before (and science actually steals the thunder of curing/resuscitating via medicine, eg a modern ophthalmologist 'heals' many more cases of blindness due to cataract in a morning in the surgery suite than Jesus cured during his entire career, without resorting to inciting miracles).

While they ARE whacky, JW beliefs just ain't THAT whacky when compared to the vast selection of whacky religious ideas out there. So don't beat yourself up, Lois: you believed what a GROUP of like-minded individuals similarly WANTED to believe, but it was an idea without any evidence, based on appeals to tradition (what prior generations have believed) and the power of mob mentality (AKA group-think). Oh, and an unhealthy dose of FAITH (which requires, in fact demands, an absense of evidence).

The 'life forever/immortality' trope is quite ancient, and not so novel: from Ponce De Leon's search for a fountain of youth to Milton's Paradise Lost, it's a motif that's driven humans' search for the Tree of Life (I remember a movie from the early 1980's which featured a group of elderly jumping/diving into a pool as if they were kids, after discovering a cure for growing old: I cannot remember the name of the movie, for the life of me!).

Scully said-

Nobody wakes up one day and decides to join a cult. The cult *recruits* you. They have targeted you and played to your vulnerabilities - that's how they've been trained. Vulerable people, including children raised in that environment, have no training or experience in counter-intelligence to effectively do battle with cult mind control tactics.

Really, as if we don't know any better? Anyone here has WORKED as a volunteer recruiter for the JWs by going D2D, so that whole "playing the victim" bit isn't going to go far; we know the cult didn't "target" anyone, but prospective members SHOW an interest as "interested ones" by accepting mags, talking, etc. To resist, all it takes is uttering three words: "I'm not interested".

Individuals need to own up to their role in JOINING the group under their own steam; until people are willing to do that, they're not owning up to what significant steps THEY took OF THEIR OWN VOLITION to become a JW, and aren't confronting the root reasons in their own situation or personality which explains WHY they ended up joining the group, in the first place.

Adam

Iamallcool

Show this pic to your therapist

jgnat

Your therapist should put this in context. There are many Christian religions who defer their hope to their life after death...in heaven. The Witnesses have simply transferred that paradise hope to the earth. This is common enough. Zimbardo described how this deferred hope affects the way people manage their lives now in his book, Time Paradox.

notjustyet

See the image in lamallcool post that has the man looking into the rays of the sun and standing in a wheat field, (possibly)

I could have sworn that I have seen that image in the past on the History channel or some other educational channel that assocaited that image with the goverment of Germany back in the days of WW2. I have searched the internet for german images, man, sunrise etc but cannot seem to find it. Anyone else remember seeing this image associated with Germany during that period? If so it might fit in nicely with the idea that Rutherford was pro german.

NJY

adamah

Jgnat, as an interesting aside, I was surprised to see the Awake! quoting Philip Zimbardo (found on Marvin Schilmer's blog in an article discussing the harm of social isolation, AKA shunning):

wasblind

Adamah, You and Scully are both correct

In the Reasoning book on pages 16-17 the WTS shows Witnesses how to over ride

The phrase " I'm not interested " to get the householders attention

they are highly trained at deception, they don't respect the word of worldly folks

They make folks think all you have to do is say " I'm not interested " and they won't bother you anymore

That's a lie

And as Scully said They do target people, and I might add set out to divide households Here's an example

" But why do the Witnesses call repeatedly even at the homes of people who do not share there faith ?

Today a person may be to busy to listen; another time he may gladly take the time. One member of a household may not be interested, but others may be. People themselves change; serious problems in life may stimulate an awareness of spiritual need."_____Reasoning book pg 206

Again, you are right Adamah, there are root causes as to why folks join . And as Scully said, Jehovah's Witnesses target and take advantage of those causes

because they are trained to do so

.

paladin

I bought into the idea back in 1968 that the big "A" was to arrive by 1975 and a new system with "life". When 1975 arrived and nothing happened I felt only anger and WT$ all a joke.

Band on the Run

Just state it. Truthfully, all religions have strange and funny beliefs. It shows a certain arrogance. Well, one shared by St. Paul. The laws of nature and humanity are set aside for Witnesses b/c we are so special. We are the only things God created that have merit. I would also explain about the millions of helpless children, infants, dogs, and cats slated for destruction at Armageddon. Living forever is not far immortality of the soul.

Destruction of billions shows glee in wholesale torture and destruction. Indeed, JAH plans crimes against humanity. He would sit in the dock at Nuremberg. I find it silly to repeat beliefs but they formed me. You no longer endorse it. It was imposed on you by a cult.

Knowng that you were in a cult is very important for treatment purposes. Without explanation from you, therapists don't know much about the Witnesses. Most worldly people seem them as a harmelss annoyance. They might even admire the reputed behavior of Witnesses. So much depends on the therapist. Once you explain the facts, they can help you. Also, you provided a powerful witness against the Witnesses.

From my experience, make clear that you have left or the therapist might decide not to treat you. Therapists remark to me thata they have never encountered such a religion that destroys families. They are not known for their good works.

If it helps make you feel better, I cringe that I must always detail Witness belief. I was a born-in. It was all I knew until I could escape. If you converted, Lois, it is the same thing. It may not be the only reason you seek help. Would concentration camp survivors never mention that fact to their doctors? I once read case summaries of former inmates. Decades later, the Holocaust haunted them, esp. on the high holy Jewish days.

steve2

What sort of blinkered life does your therapist lead for goodness sake?????

Billions of people on this earth have religious beliefs of one kind or another. What most of them share in common is the notion of life beyond this life - whether in heaven, paradise, the new world etc.

Coach her into learning how to unpop her eyes and to keep them open at a normal level to simply observe that it is very common for human beings to have ideas or beliefs that this life is not "all" there is.

She should then pay you for having to point out to her something that is blatantly obvious to practically everyone else on the planet: It is common for people to have all kinds of beliefs about life beyond this life.

How Do I Explain To My TalkTherapist That JW's Believe They Will Never Die?

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