Poster country flags and privacy

by Simon 263 Replies latest forum announcements

  • Simon
    Simon

    The new forum originally had a little country flag next to each post showing the country that the post was made from based on the GeoIP encoding (the country the IP address is from). Before I switched over to the new site someone made an issue about it violating their privacy and I didn't want to complicate and confuse the switchover with policy debate at the same time as technical issues so removed the flags even though I disagreed.

    Someone has already requested it as a feature and I think it should be added back so I thought it's now time to open the discussion and get everyone's opinions. First, the reason I think it should be shown:

    • It adds the posters context to the discussion, especially if it is about some cultural specific story (e.g. US gun control, Chinese aviation or whatever).
    • It shows up potential spammers / scammers - if someone is from China or Nigeria and they are claiming to be some grandmother from Wisconsin then you know there may be something up - yes, people can fake their location but why not raise the bar and make it more difficult for them ... Even if people aren't scammers, I don't see why we need to enable anyone to portray a false identity (e.g. claiming to be in the US when they are maybe in the UK).
    • It shows up people using anonymizing proxies. If someone's location changes every other post then it's more visible than the IP hash and I think people should at least be aware of that so that they can chose to be more guarded with what they share.
    • It looks cool and shows what a global community we are.
    • It's a public internet forum, not a secret society or whistleblowing organization.

    The bottom line is that I don't believe that showing the country compromises anyone's actual privacy because the country is a trait shared by so many people. If someone is posting other information that identifies them then the country is the least of the concerns. If someone wants to be protective of their identity then they can - but I don't think they should be able to hide that they are doing it and potentially try to portray a fake persona, befriend people and possibly try to get information from others. If someone is hiding even a basic thing about their country then I think others have a right to know in order to decide how open to be with them in return.

    When it comes to privacy there are recognized "Personally Identifiable Information" or PII which can be very strong (SIN/NI number) or weak (name). Some depend on their combination with other pieces of information to determine whether they identify someone - so name alone (if the name is common) doesn't identify you but name and town and / or street may be enough.

    From WikiPedia:

    The following data, often used for the express purpose of distinguishing individual identity, clearly classify as PII under the definition used by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (described in detail below):[6]
    • Email address (if private from an association/club membership, etc.)
    The following are less often used to distinguish individual identity, because they are traits shared by many people. However, they are potentially PII, because they may be combined with other personal information to identify an individual.
    • First or last name, if common
    • Country, state, or city of residence
    • Age, especially if non-specific
    • Name of the school they attend or workplace
    • Grades, salary, or job position
    When a person wishes to remain anonymous, descriptions of them will often employ several of the above, such as "a 34-year-old white male who works at Target". Note that information can still be private, in the sense that a person may not wish for it to become publicly known, without being personally identifiable. Moreover, sometimes multiple pieces of information, none sufficient by itself to uniquely identify an individual, may uniquely identify a person when combined; this is one reason that multiple pieces of evidence are usually presented at criminal trials. It has been shown that, in 1990, 87% of the population of the United States could be uniquely identified by gender, ZIP code, and full date of birth.[7]

    I highlighted the relevant piece ...

    I believe that anyone who believes that their country identifies them is being overly paranoid, especially if they take no measures to protect their identity.

    So, I think the country flag should be shown and the argument against showing it is weak. But I'd like to hear other people's opinions first.

    So, what do you think?

  • stuckinarut2
    stuckinarut2

    I'm happy to have it shown Simon.

     

     

  • coalize
    coalize

    Me I see a particular interest in showing that location. It can, for exemple for my case, show, that I'm not an born english-speaker, and showing my location in France, can make the readers more indulgent with my english mistakes.

    And for the violation for intimacy, except for country with very few witnesses, I don't think it's a problem.

    But for country with very few witnesses, perhaps something special can be done?

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW


                                                                                               Unless I`m Drinking Rum..

       I Definitely Want My Canadian Flag..                          Then I Want a Pirate Flag..

                

  • hamsterbait
    hamsterbait

    ABSOLUTELY NOT!

    It would be very easy to identify me if the country were posted as I have given too much personal and professional information over the years.

    Why not just ask us all to allow our names to be listed as well, after all there must be thousands of John Smiths, David So- and -Sos or Maggie St  John Crawleys in each relevant country.

    If I choose to keep my name private it ought not to be possible to trace me by gathering information about certain members in a particular country.  The WTBTS are sufficiently venomous that they would find a way of coming after the mentally diseased.  I do not wish to have my privacy invaded, because some Goblin in Bethel has gathered things about me, and can trace which congregation territory I now live in, currently undisturbed by their phone calls and pestering.

    In fact, I chose NOT to reveal my nationality when I signed up, for this very reason.  For it to be revealed now against my wishes I would see as a violation.  The anonymity this site currently gives allows far more freedom of expression than would happen if somebody thinks "X in XXXX congregation can guess this is me, and may inform."

    It was bad enough being in the police state that is Da Troof, without now having to look over my shoulder, before I reveal some detail about myself.  There are enough of us still dealing with the fallout from the cult - Maybe you are long past it, and could not care less if elders you  don't even know come knocking on your door.

    AS for trolls and impostors, I can only add that after many years here, I have seen them dispatched most adequately by the genuine posters on this board.



  • hamsterbait
    hamsterbait

    Simon suggests taking measures to protect your identity. So - let's see: this means not being able to openly discuss parts of your life which make you identifiable to JWs who knew you.

    basically - you can't talk about yourself. Just things in general which don't really affect you.

  • Simon
    Simon
    It would be very easy to identify me if the country were posted as I have given too much personal and professional information over the years.

    Then your problem is that you have given too much personal and professional information over the years. Here's the reality: the vast majority of visitors are from a handful of major English-speaking countries - US, UK, Canada, Australia. If you think a country + your information identifies you then guess what - people could just decide to apply a small list of countries anyway, no?

    Why not just ask us all to allow our names to be listed as well, after all there must be thousands of John Smiths, David So- and -Sos or Maggie St  John Crawleys in each relevant country.

    You are trying to equate a country, most of populations in the millions, with an individual name which does of course do a much better job of identifying someone. Full name is a PII.

    If I choose to keep my name private it ought not to be possible to trace me by gathering information about certain members in a particular country.  The WTBTS are sufficiently venomous that they would find a way of coming after the mentally diseased.  I do not wish to have my privacy invaded, because some Goblin in Bethel has gathered things about me, and can trace which congregation territory I now live in, currently undisturbed by their phone calls and pestering.

    If everything about your identity is private other than your country then I don't believe that is enough to identify you. Country is not PII.

    I also think that we're 'crediting' the WTS with being too concerned about who we are. They are not the gestapo, it's not East Germany. I can talk to the local witnesses and they have no idea who the hell I am - they really are not working on rounding everyone up.

    Ultimately, if you don't want to share identifying information then you should not share identifying information. Adding "country" can be done easily based on posting times or other means etc... by anyone with the time to spare.

    In fact, I chose NOT to reveal my nationality when I signed up, for this very reason.  For it to be revealed now against my wishes I would see as a violation.  The anonymity this site currently gives allows far more freedom of expression than would happen if somebody thinks "X in XXXX congregation can guess this is me, and may inform."

    Sorry to break this to you - but if you are posting from your home machine on the internet then it is trivially easy to find out who you are.


  • Simon
    Simon
    Simon suggests taking measures to protect your identity. So - let's see: this means not being able to openly discuss parts of your life which make you identifiable to JWs who knew you.
    basically - you can't talk about yourself. Just things in general which don't really affect you.

    Yes, exactly !

    If YOU chose to post things that identify to others who YOU are then ... well, YOU have done that.

    If you want to share stories about yourself then you can - if you use real details then you risk revealing things about yourself. This is the internet. The more you obfuscate things by changing details then the less you reveal. It's fairly obvious.

    Whatever you share, someone can say "does anyone in the US match those details? How about the UK?" and so on.


  • _Morpheus
    _Morpheus
    Im a cautious guy and dont want my identiy revealed but country...?  Come on.  Thats sooooooo generic as to be laughable.  Strickly as one individual i am hard pressed to see a country flag as in anyway revealing.  
  • 3rdgen
    3rdgen
    A flag is fine by me. If someone feels they could be identified by their flag couldn't there be a way to block it? Also, if someone said they identified me here I would simply say they are mistaken. My word against theirs.

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