Jesus Christ is King even before 1914 so Why the Need to... (page 2)

Bobcat

Here is a list of Scriptures referring to Jesus' "presence" (parousia, Strong's # 3952)

The connection with this thread's topic is that the WT holds that Jesus' "presence" begins with his crowning as king.

As I posted above, the Scriptures link Jesus' ruling as king with his return to heaven. So the question here is, Does the context of the verses referring to Jesus' "presence" give any indication that it is connected with when Jesus becomes king?

Mt 24:3 Disciples question leading to Olivet Discourse. Note that in disciples minds the parousia was related to destruction of the temple and the "conclusion of the system of things" (or "the age").

Mt 24:27 The parousia would be something universally recognized.

Mt 24:37, 39 Parousia illustrated with "days of Noah" (leading up to the flood) and with destruction by the flood. And with Jesus' "coming" that the disciples had to be ready for.

1 Cor 15:23 Described as the time of the resurrection.

1 Th 2:19 Related to Jesus' "coming" and the disciples being vindicated.

1 Th 3:13 Described as a time when the disciples would hopefully be rewarded for their faithfulness.

1 Th 4:15 Described as a time of being rewarded and the resurrection of dead Christians.

1 Th 5:23 Described as a time when the disciples would hopefully have been found faithful.

2 Th 2:1 As a time for being 'gathered to our Lord Jesus' (implying resurrection)

2 Th 2:8 The "manifestation of his presence." A time for 'doing away with the man of lawlessness.'

Jas 5:7, 8 The context indicates it is a time when Christians can expect to be rewarded for their "patience."

2 Pet 1:16 Linked with Jesus' "power" and the fulfillment of prophecy.

2 Pet 3:4 The context links it with a coming destruction by God (compared with flood of Noah).

2 Pet 3:12 "presence of the day of the lord" (or Jehovah - NWT) Again linked with a coming destruction.

1 Jn 2:28 Linked with a coming judgement and being rewarded if found faithful.

In all of these verses, the idea that Jesus begins ruling or is crowned at or during his presence is missing, or has to be read into the verses.

Splash

There's the account of Stephen being stoned:

(Ac 7:55, 56) But he, being full of holy spirit, gazed into heaven and caught sight of God’s glory and of Jesus standing at God’s right hand, 56 and he said: “Look! I behold the heavens opened up and the Son of man standing at God’s right hand.

And Jesus final instructions after his resurrection:

(Mt 28:18, 19) And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations. . .

Lots of references to already sitting at God's right hand:

(Ro 8:34) Who is he that will condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died, yes, rather the one who was raised up from the dead, who is on the right hand of God, who also pleads for us.

(Eph 1:20) with which he has operated in the case of the Christ when he raised him up from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places,

(Col 3:1) If, however, YOU were raised up with the Christ, go on seeking the things above, where the Christ is seated at the right hand of God.

(Heb 1:3) He is the reflection of [his] glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power; and after he had made a purification for our sins he sat down on the right hand of the Majesty in lofty places.

(Heb 8:1) Now as to the things being discussed this is the main point: We have such a high priest as this, and he has sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,

(Heb 10:12) But this [man] offered one sacrifice for sins perpetually and sat down at the right hand of God,

(Heb 12:2) as we look intently at the Chief Agent and Perfecter of our faith, Jesus. For the joy that was set before him he endured a torture stake, despising shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

(1Pe 3:22) He is at God’s right hand, for he went his way to heaven; and angels and authorities and powers were made subject to him.

Aurelius

apologies if this going off topic, however, somewhat related... was the formula used by the WTS to calculate Jesus' first arrival, etc, the same used to calculate 1914?

Happy for any help in pointing me in the right direction, publications, etc.

Bobcat

Splash:

That is a good list you made. There is nothing in the context of those verses that indicates 'sitting at God's right hand' is like waithing in the reception room, waiting for a promotion of sorts.

Instead, they all equate 'sitting at God's right hand' with the attainment of unequaled power and authority.

I'm glad to have all these verses centrally located for future use and reference.

Take Care

Aurelius:

The Society uses the 70 weeks of Daniel 9 to calculate Messiah's arrival on earth. There is divided opinion (both scholarly and here) about whether that applies to Jesus' arrival as Messiah in the 1st century (although I personally hold to that fulfillment).

The Society uses the 7 times of Daniel to calculate the 1914 date for Jesus becoming king. This calculation was originally taken from 19th century Adventist calculations.

wasblind

In the world of a Jehovah's Witness, the Authority Jesus speaks of bein' given in Matt 28:18

has been over ridden by an earthly WTS leader called Rutherford

Jehovah's Witnesses often quote Isaiah 43:10 as proof of who they should be witnesses of

But what they fail to acknowledge is Isaiah 43:10 was quoted before the birth of the Christ Jesus

Becuase Jesus remaind faithful to the end, he was given the authority

to be able to tell folks to be witnesses of him

Think about it, If this religion tried to steal a reward from Jesus Christ

what do active witnesses today expect from the society for all thier hard work

How many today lay on thier death beds full of empty promises from the WTS

....

.

Crazyguy

Personally I like Ephesians 1:20-23 it hits the nail clearly on the head, the jw religion had to make up another kingdom to try to explain away all the scriptures that blow up their 1914 crap. They call it the kingdom of love.

prologos

CG: no, Col 1:13 is not on the Wt repertoire,

they do not want to talk about the kingdom of the sons love, it contradicts their

1914 kingdom that appeared out of nowhere. but is now here in wt land.

Bella15

Oh, yes, if we believe He is the Messiah then HE IS KING. If we believe that he resurrected and conquered the grave HE IS THE KING of that Kingdom John the Baptizer preached about, he is the King of the kingdom he was born, died and resurrected for, he is the KING of the kingdom all the apostles preched about everywhere they went as a real conquering kingdom that would expand throughout the earth... He has been ruling on earth the moment he was put over ALL rule, power, authority, dominions ... The term Lord is a kingly title when applied to Jesus - David's kingship pass to Jesus ..."therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified" (Acts 2).

Jesus says ALL authority has been given unto me in heaven AND ON EARTH (he did not say in heaven only) - JWs and others have come up with a "spiritual" "invisible" kingdom ... these words never appear together in the bible ..

Crazyguy

Prologos I must be wrong but I read about this kingdom of love while researching the new covenant and mediator subject and I thought that's how they explained away all the scriptures that blow up 1914. If I'm wrong then how do they explain them all away?

wantingtruth

.

Indeed, it has been proved that Jesus is King ruling in Heavens immediate after His resurrection.

The 1914 has no value , together with all the "maths" used to support it.

Speaking "biblically" , the whole interpretation leading to "1914" is beyond "the teaching of Christ" / 2 John1:9 .

wt

Jesus Christ is King even before 1914 so Why the Need to...

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