by Apognophos 223 Replies latest watchtower bible
I just read this entire thread and holy crap!!! That was a freaking awesome read! Even though I don't know diddly squat about code, I was amazed at seeing MMM's work and progress. Thanks to everyone who helped make this happen!
Also, I'd love to have a copy if possible.
Thanks again,
OneDay
MeanMrMustard I send a PM to You. ;)
This is /must be a fascinating topic , I only wish I knew what your all talking about.
Can somebody please explain in simple lay-mans terms what it all means ?
I`m sure us less technical / computer illiterates would love to know what your all so excited about . Pardon my ignorance.
smiddy
What slii is doing is a lot more complicated. But the short description is this: The thread starts out with the intent of taking the the 1983 and the 2013 version of the NWT and comparing them. We all know that they were thinking of sneaking in some changes, and we wanted to find out what the full extent of the changes might be. After all, they might change the text of scripture in more ways to support their doctrine - we call all see that happening, and so we wanted to employ the services of a computer to find the changes.
It started out trying to get the 2013 text from a PDF file, but eventually we got it from the web (which was a lot easier). Until the WTB&TS put the 2013 on the web, we were trying to get the text of the new version from the PDF and then from the android app. The day they put the 2013 version on the web was the day I cracked the andrioid app encrpytion and compression. I did this by following the decomiled java code from the app.
After we had the text from both versions of the NWT, I ran it through a diff algorithm and then created the two PDFs.
Now slii is trying to crack the format of the PUB files in the WTLIB. That is definitely a difficult task, and it would be cool if he pulls it off. I went ahead and took the easy way out and got the entire WTLIB content through the WTLIB itself by creating a program to automate a human-like behavoir of clicking each item in the wtlib one at a time and then copying the translated content (by the wtlib program itself) into a text file, one for each topic the wtlib itself lists. It's like those DVD manufacturers in the early 2000s coming up with a DVD format that could only be read by special DVD players, and thinking that they have thwarted the pirates - only to realize (too late I might add), that they would simply buy the new DVD player and plug it into the back of their computer and make a video that way.
Anyhow, more to come soon.
MMM
I have the original NWT in a MySQL database. Did that when rumors started about a revised version. I wanted the original for comparison purposes. Does anyone happen to have the revised version in text files in book, chapter, verse, passage format? I'd love to import into another MySQL database. I use mine for research purposes, so it would be great for topical comparisons.
You want the code that I used to do the match-patch? You can get the google-diff-match-patch online, but you have to modify it to do a word-level diff. The google-diff-match-patch is a character level diff, and it works quite well. To do it for words, you have to tokenize each verse into words, then map them to a unicode character, diff the unicode char sentence, and then map back to the words. First you have to define what a "word" is... and its tougher than it looks. For me, each space is a word, and so is punctuation, as well as what you would consider a normal word.
I have just used GNU wdiff for the purpose (I'm a Linux geek). But I think the differences are too big to analyze without major work even at the word level. I seem to remember that more verses have been touched than not touched.
OH, and welcome to slii we would love to hear your ( less technical story )
Hmm, my story. I don't know if there's much of a story. Also I don't quite know where I should post it, so perhaps I'll hide it here ;)
I've never been a Witness myself, but I've talked with them a lot. I'm a Christian, perhaps mostly Lutheran. You wouldn't do too much violence by calling me fundamentalist, though I do like to emphasize that the fundament is the blood of Christ and God's Word, not biblical law.
JWs and Mormons are a topic I've had to research somewhat both to be able to tell them how wrong and misled these poor people are from my Christian perspective, as well as to talk with people who've had encounters with them and have got doubts about things like what the Bible really teaches. Comparing the JW texts from different years might be a useful tool here too.
I used to be an atheist until I was 18 and actually for the first time had contact with people who really believe (I live in a fairly secular Scandinavian country, but still I don't quite understand where all the Christians were for those 18 years). I wanted to distance myself from those I might call more militant or ridiculing atheists, and since my new aquaintances also told me that I cannot expect to reach out and find God but need to ask for God to find me, I figured out that it would actually be kind of dishonest to "not give it a try" and pray and read Bible. Sure, it felt foolish, still believing there to be no God, but hey, there's no harm in praying if there's nobody to listen, is there? Well, I ended up believing after some of my prayers were answered to such an extent that even my stubborn mind considers it too much of a coincidence. I also think it's the only way I could have come to believe. Now I have almost as many years behind me as a Christian.
I'm a computer scientist and programmer in my 30s. My geekiness extends to religious matters too; I'm often mistaken for a theology student. I think I know my Bible quite well; well enough to see through JW distortions, anyway. I bear no enmity towards Witnesses or mostly any other religious sect. Mostly I pity them and feel sad for them (then I'm sure at least some atheists think the same about me). I see them as victims, and it seems to me that many JWs I've talked with are sincerely interested about finding out the truth - it's just the WT society that makes it hard. I do wish to work against them getting new converts though, and for the current members finding they've been betrayed.
Actually I think the way I landed here on this forum was a consequence of me wanting the NWT in my phone's Bible software (I don't have that yet, but I think converting what I have to the Sword format would be a job of an hour or two now). Thinking about whether they change the NWT text (other than the newest rather complete rewrite) led to the idea of comparative study of Watchtower Library versions - a few months ago I wasn't even aware they release such a thing.
My most extensive contact with JWs comes from them coming to my home nearly weekly at one point; I think we were going through the "What does Bible really teach?". They had come to my door for a few times, and somehow they always managed to come at the most inopportune time, so I proposed that we schedule the meetings beforehand. I think they just might have read a bit too much into that :-) In a curious coincidence they once managed to come at the same time as some Mormons, who were also visiting me regularly at that time. I think my motivation was twofold: First, even if I feel hopeless, I think it is the right thing to try to show them some Christian love and to try and show they are misled. Second, the time they spend talking with me is time they don't spend talking to someone potentially more vulnerable.
@leaving_quietly:
I can upload my database again. The sendspace link expired. The DB is about 135 MB. It contains both versions, and all the diff lists. It also contains the HTML markup of the diffs in verse-by-verse form and well as in book form.
It is not MySQL, however. It is SQL Server 2008. Are you ok with that?
MMM
@slii:
Great story.
As it turns out, the NWT compare project did show the full extent of the differences - and they are extensive. However, there have been some benefits out of it. For example, we knew going into it that the NWT translation committee decided to drop brackets around words they inserted for "clarity" in the 1983 version. The diff log in the database could be used to see a list of all the words that were previously bracketed in the 1983 version, but now are no longer bracketed.
Comparing the JW texts from different years might be a useful tool here too.
And that is why I changed my focus the WTLIB itself. From year-to-year, other than the new documents (because you expect that to be different), what changes? That is an interesting question indeed.
...so I proposed that we schedule the meetings beforehand. I think they just might have read a bit too much into that :-)
Ha ha... are they coming all the time now to study that book? They should - someone could report a Bible study on their time card.
MMM
Welcome, slii, that was an interesting introduction. It's funny but not too unusual for Mormons and JWs to call on the same person. There's slim pickings out there these days; most people are too casual about religion to want to spend the time to talk with someone at length about it.
To be honest, I would doubt that the literature in the Library CD-ROM gets changed from year to year. Most of the really embarrassing stuff, like 1975 references, was redacted in later print editions long before the books were digitized for the Library, or else is from before the 1950 cut-off date on the CD. But I bet no one has looked into this before to make sure!
The case of the missing A.T. Johnson could indeed be due to a disfellowshipping; I know that photos have been altered or replaced when they contain people that get DFed (like a kid who was used because he was considered a good example of a young Witness, who then turned out not to be :-). It could also be something as mundane as needing to keep the index to a certain number of pages and thinking, "No one is going to want to look up this Johnson guy from 1989".
@MMM, Yes, SQL Server 2008 is fine. I can do the appropriate conversions on my end. Please PM if/when you upload it. Many thanks in advance!
~LQ
@LQ: Got it! Sendspace was giving me issues there for a while, but it finally uploaded.
Sending link now in PM...
MMM
